Valley consolidation

[Ripcord22A]

Is this a nation wide thing?

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[Brother JC]

Looks like an Oregon thing. Maybe they asked SMJ to do it?
What’s next, having to pump your own gas?

 

[Ripcord22A]

I was told that it's a nationwide thing


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[Ripcord22A]

From a Deputy that I Know........
Bro. Jonathan,

I am a member of the Committee Ritual and Ceremonial Forms, and the Committee Recommendations to the Supreme Council included that all Scottish Rite Valleys be required to present at least the Mandatory 4° and 14° degrees in order to have a Lodge of Perfection.

My impression of the recommendation is not as severe or draconian as your impression. I am not aware of the discussion held by the Supreme Council concerning the recommendations, as the discussions were held in executive session.

I cannot and do not speak for the the Committee Ritual and Ceremonial Forms, however as a member I support the recommendation. At a minimum a Lodge of Perfection should be able to confer the mandatory degrees (4° and 14°) in full form. It would then also follow that a Chapter Rose Croix be able to confer the 18° (mandatory), a Council of Kadosh the 30°(mandatory), and a Consistory the 32°(mandatory). If a Valley cannot confer the mandatory degrees, then it is something other than a Valley, perhaps a club.

The recommendations outlined by Ill. Kuney, 33°, SGIG in Oregon, certainly speak to the intent of the recommendation, and provides ample opportunity and notice for the Valleys to decide what bodies they choose to have.

Instead of your description of the Supreme Council "forcing" Valleys to comply, it is more of a Jurisdictional opportunity to standardize the definition of a Lodge of Perfection. Which is to say, that if one is talking about the Klamath Falls Lodge of Perfection and the Portland Lodge of Perfection, you can be assured that in order for them to be called Lodges of Perfection that they can confer the mandatory degrees.

I hope this clarifies the questions you asked.

 

[chrmc]

Great initiative, we need more of that. If we don't maintain some minimum standards to the ritual, and also try and consolidate our declining bodies, we will surely not last.

 

[MarkR]

Every valley in the Orient of Minnesota confers considerably more than the obligatory five every year, so I guess our SGIG didn't feel the need to send out a letter like that.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Well apparently it's a thing for all valleys. The SGC and some other reps will be coming thru every valley starting in 2019 to grade the 2 or 5 obligatory degrees, depending on what option the valley chooses to do. They must be done in full form and from memory


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[Warrior1256]

At a minimum a Lodge of Perfection should be able to confer the mandatory degrees (4° and 14°) in full form. It would then also follow that a Chapter Rose Croix be able to confer the 18° (mandatory), a Council of Kadosh the 30°(mandatory), and a Consistory the 32°(mandatory). If a Valley cannot confer the mandatory degrees, then it is something other than a Valley, perhaps a club.

Agreed.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Agreed.

But does it have to be done from memory? I don't believe it should. I've been to many reunions and parts are read, a well read part out does a shaky memorized part all day long

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[chrmc]

But does it have to be done from memory? I don't believe it should. I've been to many reunions and parts are read, a well read part out does a shaky memorized part all day long

That's the usual debate that comes up, and often becomes very long as there are good arguments on both sides. However in the US ritual is generally never written down and read in any of the bodies that you see. And when we're only taking about the mandatory degrees, it really should be possible for a valley to deliver them from memory, otherwise they're probably not ready to be a valley.

We have to set a certain level of standards and expectation, otherwise we might as well shut it down. Personally I'm glad to see that the Scottish Rite is one of the bodies that are trying to do that.

 

[Ripcord22A]

not ready to be a valley.

What about valley's that have been valleys forever but just have an older demographic and memorizing is hard. However they are still a viable Valley and are doing more then "just surviving"


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[chrmc]

What about valley's that have been valleys forever but just have an older demographic and memorizing is hard. However they are still a viable Valley and are doing more then "just surviving"

But are they really a viable valley? The ritual and the lessons should be the most important thing that we do, and if they terminal degrees cannot be put up correctly, is the valley then living up to it's most basic purpose? I'm not saying that we shouldn't account for ups and down in membership, work with valleys on getting them up to speed etc.

But once we start deviating from the very basic Masonic requirement for the ritual, we are suddenly not Masonry any more. We can be a great club, but it's not a Scottish Rite valley.

 

[Ripcord22A]

But are they really a viable valley? The ritual and the lessons should be the most important thing that we do, and if they terminal degrees cannot be put up correctly, is the valley then living up to it's most basic purpose? I'm not saying that we shouldn't account for ups and down in membership, work with valleys on getting them up to speed etc.

But once we start deviating from the very basic Masonic requirement for the ritual, we are suddenly not Masonry any more. We can be a great club, but it's not a Scottish Rite valley.

Yes they are viable, lessons are taught. Degrees are put on correctly and all the big parts are mostly from memory. I don't know any professor that gives all his lessons from memory.

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[chrmc]

Yes they are viable, lessons are taught. Degrees are put on correctly and all the big parts are mostly from memory. I don't know any professor that gives all his lessons from memory.

But we are not talking about a college professor. We're talking about Masonry. And within the Scottish Rite there is an tradition, if not a requirement, of having the terminal degrees delivered from memory. If a Valley cannot live up to that, then they are not living up to their very fundamental purpose they are set up for. There should be little debate in that.

I get it'll be tough for some valleys. I get it's emotional, and I get it'll mean some very hard decisions. But what's the alternative? We start video taping the degrees as we have seen in the Northern Jurisdiction? Why even meet then, let's do it online over Facebook.

A line has to be drawn somewhere to say that these are the bare minimum requirements for what a Valley and Masonry will stand for. If not here, then where?

 

[Ripcord22A]

But we are not talking about a college professor. We're talking about Masonry. And within the Scottish Rite there is an tradition, if not a requirement, of having the terminal degrees delivered from memory. If a Valley cannot live up to that, then they are not living up to their very fundamental purpose they are set up for. There should be little debate in that.

Been to several reunions where parts of degrees were read, so I wouldn't say that it's a tradition. Also every stated meeting I've ever been to the opening and closings were read.

Oh and we are talking about a college....is the AASR not the University of Freemasonry?


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[chrmc]

Ripcord, let me try this a different way to get your perspective.

1) What do you feel is wrong with setting a minimum standard of having the terminal degrees delivered by Memory? As we're basically seeing in any other part of Masonry in the US?

2) If a Valley isn't able to meet it's most basic requirement for the ritual, also including opening and closing of Stated meetings why should it still be called a Valley?

 

[MarkR]

Have you ever been the degree director? Virtually every year, I have one or two cast members who drop out and have to be replaced. I have someone who, on degree day, has some reason he can't make it, and I have to quickly find a volunteer to costume up and read the lines. And some of the parts in some of the degrees have several sections of dialog that are on a par with the middle-chamber lecture (Pike wasn't one to spare words.)

And I agree with Brother Ripcord: a well-read part is vastly superior to the well-meaning brother who struggles through, stopping and looking up at the ceiling for inspiration, asking for a prompt every couple of sentences.

 

[chrmc]

Have you ever been the degree director? Virtually every year, I have one or two cast members who drop out and have to be replaced. I have someone who, on degree day, has some reason he can't make it, and I have to quickly find a volunteer to costume up and read the lines. And some of the parts in some of the degrees have several sections of dialog that are on a par with the middle-chamber lecture (Pike wasn't one to spare words.)

And I agree with Brother Ripcord: a well-read part is vastly superior to the well-meaning brother who struggles through, stopping and looking up at the ceiling for inspiration, asking for a prompt every couple of sentences.

I'm a degree master, and a member of several degrees, so I am familiar with the situations that happens. But I think there core part of this discussion is being a little distorted. No one is saying that we can't bring a guy in for an emergency or cut a role if need be. That we can't shorten the lines when a guy get's sick or find another good way of doing a good degree.

Things happen and we deal with that, but there is a difference from doing an exception in an emergency, to making the exception your plan.

The core of the discussion as I see it is what is reasonable in setting a standard for Valleys, of what can be considered the bare minimum to be called a Valley. And I think that requiring performance of the terminal degrees from memory isn't that big of a requirement. I fail to see why we are happy to allow customs in the Scottish Rite that we'd never even consider in Blue Lodge.

I'd love to hear good arguments to why people think that standard is to high, but "we have to many old guys" and "emergencies happen" are not compelling enough in my humble opinion.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Ripcord, let me try this a different way to get your perspective.

1) What do you feel is wrong with setting a minimum standard of having the terminal degrees delivered by Memory? As we're basically seeing in any other part of Masonry in the US?

2) If a Valley isn't able to meet it's most basic requirement for the ritual, also including opening and closing of Stated meetings why should it still be called a Valley?

I don't have a problem with setting a standard. I'm military I'm all about standards. I'm actually OK with this edict, while I feel it's a bit strict I'm OK with it, how ever i think it should be for new valley's. Valleys that are otherwise viable being forced to fold or become just a LoP and loose 3/4 of their dues.

As for not allowing it in other parts of Masonry I've had it explained to me that parts are read in the AASR and other appendant bodies so as not to interfere with blue lodge. Also I know of a few jurisdictions over seas that read everything

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[Warrior1256]

But does it have to be done from memory? I don't believe it should. I've been to many reunions and parts are read, a well read part out does a shaky memorized part all day long

Actually, I can see the point of this. It's sometimes hard to get enough participants to put on the ritual even allowing the parts to be read. If you tell someone that they can not read their part but must memorize it they are libel to take a hike and then where would you be?