Visitation between A.F.&A.M and F&A.M

[MRichard]

That is an entirely false statement

http://www.myfreemasonry.com/showthread.php/742-Prince-Hall-Questions?p=4602&viewfull=1#post4602

You indicated earlier that visitation was not requested because it had been privately demanded by GLoTX it not be requested.

 

[dfreybur]

But the truth be told, neither Grand Lodge is going to allow anybody below Grand Master to negotiate this kind of a deal. There are no playmakers that will change this other than they change the mind of their own Grand Master. That is just Masonic protocol. You and I may not like it, but that is the way things are done.

This is only partially correct. While a GM is able to negotiate recognition agreements they are only able to ratify them temporarily by edict. It takes a vote on the GL floor at annual communication for the agreement to be ratified. Here's the kicker - It's been since 2002 and no GM on either side has done so yet. The time to wait on the GMs is over.

At this point the key is to work the process from the bottom up. Back a few months ago the MWPHAGLofTX passed some resolution from the floor having to do with a new recognition agreement but it has not seen public release so I figure it's time to work as though it didn't happen. In the GLofTX this month is the deadline for submitting resolutions. At my stated meeting in Victory 1160 this month I will present the resolution I quote below and try to get the pedestal officers to sign and forward it. I will be happy if brothers in any/every other GLofTX lodge use my wording and submit as well.

Some time after a meeting was scheduled between the two Grand Masters but Prince Hall pulled out when it was informed that the GL of Texas had changed the subject and would be giving the Prince Hall GL a dressing down at the scheduled meeting.

The Ivory Coast invasion has ended. This self inflicted delay is no longer an issue. If it were between GMs it would thus be up to MW GM Curtis to reschedule because he is the one who cancelled over a territorial invasion. But I am far past thinking it is between GMs or that it should be up to GMs.

The best way to accomplish cross visitation is for each of us to work within our Grand Lodges to get each Grand Lodge to vote in Grand Session to move ahead on this issue and approve it.

Direct submission of legislation by the published process through the Gr Sec office not through the GM. Waiting on the GMs has been a losing strategy since 2002. The time to wait on them is over.

I would be happy to write and publish an article on the subject if Brothers would give me the information necessary to present the issue publicly.

Or use this one which I have quoted on this forum on several occasions -

Whereas the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas has been recognized for several years by the Grand Lodge of Texas, the United Grand Lodge of England and many other regular and recognized jurisdictions, and

Whereas there has previously been in place a custom recognition compact in place between the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas and the Grand Lodge of Texas, which compact did not include visitation, and

Whereas standard recognition compact between regular and recognized jurisdictions includes visitation, dual affiliation with jurisdictions that support dual affiliation and all of the traditional amenities between regular and recognized jurisdictions, therefore

Be it resolved that the Grand Lodge of Texas offer the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas the full standard and traditional compact of recognition to replace the previous compact bringing our jurisdictions from partial amity to full amity.

Be it further resolved that the Grand Lodge of Texas offer the full standard and traditional compact of recognition to all other Prince Hall Grand Lodges that have been recognized in their respective states, this offer to replace any previous compacts.

Be it further resolved that the Grand Lodge of Texas offer the full standard and traditional compact of recognition to Prince Hall Grand Lodges as their states achieve recognition.

Respectfully submitted,






Lots of signatures of WMs, SWs, JWs, PMs, DDGMs and various other enthusiasts

Cc: Committee on Fraternal Relations, Committee on Legislation, Grand Secretary's office, elected grand line officers, (MWPHGLofTX Grand Secretary?)

 

[Bro. David F. Hill]

That was done last year and passed by the craft. Been waiting on the Grand Lodge of Texas to do the same.

 

[dfreybur]

That was done last year and passed by the craft. Been waiting on the Grand Lodge of Texas to do the same.

I am interested in the wording of the proposal that passed. The one I will submit next week includes correcting recognition agreements with all states and blanket recognition going forward. I figure it's the right thing to ask for.

 

[Glen Cook]

My understanding is the GLOTX "changed" the subject when the MWPHLGLTX invaded the sovereign masonic territory of the Ivory Coast. There was no way the GLOTX could precede with further extending masonic relations with a Grand Lodge that had invaded the territory of a Grand Lodge that GLOTX was in amity with. My understanding is that the situation is in the process of being/has been resolved, and hopefully things will get back on track.
...
.[/ QUOTE]

Did PHA TX invade the territory of Ivory Coast?

 

[Levelhead]

I dont believe that Florida even recognizes Prince Hall at all. But i do know there are lodges here cause my neighbor is a Prince Hall. I dont know him but see the sign on his car. Dont think visitation is accepted either.

 

[BroBook]

Yes my brother The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida is Prince Hall affiliated in fl and no they are not recognized by "Mainstream" neither does Prince Hall recognize them


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

 

[BryanMaloney]

This situation will eventually resolve with time. The more time passes, the more the "Bobby Lee surrendered but I would'a kept on fightin'" generation will leave the world.

 

[tldubb]

Yes my brother The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida is Prince Hall affiliated in fl and no they are not recognized by "Mainstream" neither does Prince Hall recognize them


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

Brother your saying that Prince Hall Affiliated GL's don't recognize MWUGL of Florida?

Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App

 

[dfreybur]

Brother your saying that Prince Hall Affiliated GL's don't recognize MWUGL of Florida?

That's the problem with using the word "mainstream" even when in quotes. Both branches are mainstream. It's why I tend to use the unofficial term "George Washington Affiliated", though I have no interest in any jurisdiction using the expression for any official purpose as that would lead to its own set of issues.

 

[MarkR]

That's the problem with using the word "mainstream" even when in quotes. Both branches are mainstream. It's why I tend to use the unofficial term "George Washington Affiliated", though I have no interest in any jurisdiction using the expression for any official purpose as that would lead to its own set of issues.

Actually, the problem was that with the way that was worded, it sounds like Prince Hall doesn't recognize The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida. What he meant was that "mainstream" Grand Lodge of Florida doesn't recognize The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida, and The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida doesn't recognize The Grand Lodge of Florida.

 

[BroBook]

Actually, the problem was that with the way that was worded, it sounds like Prince Hall doesn't recognize The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida. What he meant was that "mainstream" Grand Lodge of Florida doesn't recognize The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida, and The Most Worshipful Union Grand Lodge of Florida doesn't recognize The Grand Lodge of Florida.

It was worded like that because I was referring to the previous inquiry as far Georgia goes I have no idea!!!



Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

 

[BroBook]

That's the problem with using the word "mainstream" even when in quotes. Both branches are mainstream. It's why I tend to use the unofficial term "George Washington Affiliated", though I have no interest in any jurisdiction using the expression for any official purpose as that would lead to its own set of issues.

I have asked this question before to no avail , I will rephrase it, it is a fact of History that what is now called Prince Hall Masonry was once called African Grand Lodge Masonry:what were the none Africans called or more importantly what did/ do they call themselves?!!!!


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

 

[MarkR]

I have asked this question before to no avail , I will rephrase it, it is a fact of History that what is now called Prince Hall Masonry was once called African Grand Lodge Masonry:what were the none Africans called or more importantly what did/ do they call themselves?!!!!

Just "Grand Lodge of (State)."

 

[goldsquare]

I am a newly raised MM under MWUGL of FL at St. Petersburg lodge #109. But our grand lodge was founded under the PH Grand Lodge of Pennsylanvia via Hiram Lodge #3, we can trace our lineage to African Lodge #459. We are Prince Hall Affiliated, but in my studies I found out brothers that are raised in other PH lodges apply for membership with the home lodge in Massachusetts.

 

[bupton52]

I am a newly raised MM under MWUGL of FL at St. Petersburg lodge #109. But our grand lodge was founded under the PH Grand Lodge of Pennsylanvia via Hiram Lodge #3, we can trace our lineage to African Lodge #459. We are Prince Hall Affiliated, but in my studies I found out brothers that are raised in other PH lodges apply for membership with the home lodge in Massachusetts.

I don't completely understand what you are saying @goldsquare

 

[dfreybur]

We are Prince Hall Affiliated, but in my studies I found out brothers that are raised in other PH lodges apply for membership with the home lodge in Massachusetts.

Does this mean that African Lodge still exists and accepts remote petitions for affiliation? Sounds to me like a pride in heritage issue rather like the recent trend of brothers petitioning UGLE's Internet Lodge. Great idea both.

Some PHA jurisdictions only allow a brother to be a member of one lodge. Do they make an exception for African Lodge? There are single affiliation jurisdictions that allow membership in research lodges as they don't compete for membership.

 

[tldubb]

Any member of a MWPHGL can join African Lodge #459, this is more of symbolic membership we go once a year for visitation with the mother lodge MWPHGL of MA. The membership to AL#459 is not mandatory for any PHA masons... check it out www.princehall.org. FYI

 

[Bro. David F. Hill]

Let me explain; This is basically a fundraiser. You pay your $100 fee, and get honorary membership in the lodge. Membership includes: Certificate, Dues Card, Medallion (numbered), and a copy of the Original Charter of African Lodge No. 459. And this is not for Prince Hall only. http://www.princehall.org/Forms/459 application 2013.pdf

 

[tldubb]

Did I say only Prince hall masons?