We Can't Afford to Wait

Discussion in 'The Refreshment Lounge' started by Blake Bowden, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

    5,675
    947
    113
    Some people will skip this video simply because it's produced by Moveon.org....trust me, I don't like them either, but how should we deal with this issue? What should happen to those individuals who cannot afford Health Insurance?

    [video=youtube;8GoFj8Fc9iM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GoFj8Fc9iM[/video]
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  2. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
  3. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
  4. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
    I guess I'm surprised at the widespread belief that the United States is the only nation incapable of doing what every other industrialized nation (and many developing) has done without total collapse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  5. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    the culture is different. check out how nicely healthcare in california is working for them.

    also, i think they'll all fail, too.
     
  6. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

    465
    7
    18
    How did this country exist for over 200 years without this urgently needed "Health Care"?

    Let me ask, who here is willing to give up over 50% of their income for this?

    You really didn't think you were going to make your neighbour pay for this without your contribution "for the greater good" did you? How selfish of you (shame on you if you were).
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  7. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
    Of course the new Senator from Massachusetts voted for his own statewide Universal Healthcare.

    I'd agree the culture is different, but I think that's why it won't get passed, not why it would fail.

    Germany has had it for 200 years, England started 100 years ago and put it into final phases about 50. I imagine there are massive rallies in other countries against their existing healthcare system?

    According to the rhetoric, the assumption seems to be every other industrialized nation will collapse and fall into communism.

    I'm sure nobody wants to give up 50% of their check dedicated to health care (is that what every other industrialized nation is giving?) - but nobody wants to declare bankruptcy because they get one major illness either.
    However the majority of people who declare bankruptcy due so due to illness.

    Here is the British Conservative Party Platform on Health:
    http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Health.aspx
     
  8. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

    465
    7
    18
    I'm sure nobody wants to give up 50% of their check dedicated to health care (is that what every other industrialized nation is giving?) - but nobody wants to declare bankruptcy because they get one major illness either.
    However the majority of people who declare bankruptcy due so due to illness.

    I'm sure you know full well that every Social Welfare State that has this type of health care does indeed pay over 50% of their income in taxes... But wait for the drum roll.... You are right however, they don't file for bankruptcy; they die waiting for that health care they dearly paid for...

    Nice strawman though...
     
  9. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    we've rehashed this a few times.

    what if i say i don't want state healthcare? will you force it upon me? are you okay with other people forcing it on me?

    what if texas decides to use nullification if they do pass it? are you okay with them marching the army into austin to force it?
     
  10. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
    Actually I don't know that. Every industrialized nation has some form of universal health care.

    You are saying that 50% or more every personal income in every industrialized nation but the US, goes to their universal healthcare plan? And I'm assuming they pay more in additional taxes since that 50% is all due to the health plan.

    Here's a chart with several industrialized nations and only 3 touch or exceed 50% - and that's *total* taxes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

    And more, sortable by individual amount:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

    Ahh, straw men. Like saying they die waiting for health care. Check the longevity and mortality rates.

    Life Expectancy by Nation (We're 38th, just below Cuba)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    Infant Mortality (We're 33rd)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

    More information from the first link:

    International Health Comparisons: A Compendium of published information on healthcare systems, the provision of health care and health achievement in 10 countries
    http://www.nao.org.uk/idoc.ashx?docId=e902d344-ab56-4808-ab63-399241d33484&version=-1

    Read part 4 starting on page 22.
     
  11. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
    Pubic Education, Public Roads, Social Security, Medicare -- all passed under the threa of armed force?

    Texas remains No. 1 in uninsured
    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5968063.html

    I wouldn't be surprised if we fought to stay number 1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  12. RedTemplar

    RedTemplar Johnny Joe Combs Premium Member

    1,072
    36
    68
    There is only one industrialized nation I know of trying to keep up the rest of the World. This nation just simply cannot continue to feed, clothe, shelter, as well as police the Universe. There are simply not enough resources for everyone to lead the lifestyle of an average American. If this statement is entirely true, How is America going to react when it finally accepts the situation? How will everyone react?
     
  13. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    what wonderful examples. you can see how well public education in texas is working.

    medicare as well.

    i wouldn't be surprised if people fought for more of the same sub-par services.
     
  14. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    also, doesn't the state pay for all those things? none of those are federal. medicare is partly federal, or is that medicaid?

    either way, texas pays for most of it... doing it on the federal level is another problem altogether...
     
  15. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

    916
    10
    18
    We can't afford to wait.

    We need to stop health care reform as they are trying to give us.
     
  16. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

    493
    10
    0
    All I will say is look at the news this week about Canada's Premier. Canada's Universal Healthcare is so great he is coming to the USA. Need I say anything else?
     
  17. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

    471
    3
    38
    He has access to health care millions of Americans don't . Because of his income.
     
  18. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    LOL. i hadn't heard this. that is HILARIOUS.

    and if canadian healthcare is so great, why is he coming here? is it possible he didn't want to wait in line?

    i mean, if we're gonna have federal healthcare, where will our rich people go to have the best medical care?

    also, you never responded to my above post regarding how far you'd go to push this onto me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  19. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

    465
    7
    18
    His income is because he's part of the "ruling class" and gets a better plan than the public (just like our ruling class) and doesn't have to pay into the plan like all the other Canucks and chumps. He then can take that extra money, bail to the US to get better health care, why is that? Why is it in these systems you have to wait for the board of governors to tell you if you need immediate care? Then if the gate keepers says no, you have to pay extra for immediate care. Because the cost of diminishing returns has played out in these systems some more (to support the faltering system) is taken from "motor fuel taxes", you know the one certain politicos here think should be collected here at the same rate as Yurp! Here's a tip for those that think like that; go to Europe! There was a reason why they all came hereā€¦
     
  20. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

    2,353
    25
    38
    by the way. there are rumors that the euro might collapse. where will their healthcare be then?
     

Share My Freemasonry