Wearing the apron with a tail coat

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Mac, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Brethren, I recently wore a kilt with a tail coat (tails removed) for the first time. A brother rightly pointed out that the coat was slightly over my apron. My choices are to either lower my apron down a bit, or cinch it so tight around my jacket that my jacket will end up wrinkled by the end of the night.

    What's the appropriate course of action?

    I thought it ironic that I would be chided for wearing a mess dress coat incorrectly, while brothers who show up in jeans and a shirt are left alone. ;)

    Edit: Picture for reference

    tuxsw copy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  2. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    I believe what you encountered is a lack of knowledge or usage. Most of the Brethren here in Texas are not used to wearing tuxedos to the local meetings and most certainly are not used to the coat with tails. Tuxedos are common place at organizations such as York Rite College (no aprons), and Allied Masonic Degree Councils I have never seen anyone choose to use the tails approach. I think that this may lead to some confusion by the Brethren comparing this style to the standard cut coats common of suits and tuxedos.

    Our California Brethren wear tuxedos with tails and I have seen several photos, none of which wore their aprons on top of the shortened coats.


    Just an observation.
     
  3. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    I knew I had seen this somewhere and I FINALLY found it. This is a "tradition" and is not rule or law. This is actually in the ALL Program.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Very much so, thanks!
     
  5. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    I am likely to get slaughtered for this, but I'm just going to shoot from the hip. Covering up the Apron comes up fairly regular here and in conversation with brothers. Its a badge and an emblem of innocence. Some folks act as though you have committed a sin if you conver any part of the apron up. Personally, I don't have a problem with wearing the apron under a jacket as long as it doesn't cover the whole thing up. I've seen pictures (mostly older) that show a brother wearing the apron under a jacket that looked a lot classier than some of more recent examples I have seen of brothers wearing it over the jacket.

    My main problem is two fold 1) the issue of self goverance and 2) placing emphasis on the external over the internal. As masons we should govern ourselves and as long as there are no gross violations, this should be left up to the brothers preference. Secondly, some of the brothers I have heard make a big deal of wearing the apron on the outside, need to be more concerned with that purity of heart and uprightness of conduct that we should be reminded of when we tie an apron on.

    I think your jacket/apron combo looks great and is totally acceptable. With regard to your skirt, I mean kilt, see my comments on other threads. :001_tongue:

    Now let the arrows fly!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  6. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Brother Riley, I think one of the greatest benefits of having internet access and the opportunity to discuss things with brothers around the country is how much of a real big picture view we get of Freemasonry.

    A Mason in my area says it's universal that the apron is worn over the coat. It's not. Point blank. Each jurisdiction has its own set of rules regarding the wearing of the apron. If we had some kind of symbolic explanation for why we do it, so would those who do it differently. Is one jurisdiction more right than the other? No, and the issue should be treated as such.

    I think it's perfectly acceptable to wear it as I did in the picture, and someone I spoke to today at Grand Lodge agreed.

    Definitely makes for good discussion!
     
  7. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Ah! And the discussion goes on nightly among the brethren of the Grand Lodges of Ireland and England. The Irish comeback is, "Irish masons are willing to take their jacket off at any time to work for masonry."

    There really are so many interesting conversations going on out there. Only sometimes not as much meaningful work in the quarries.

    Brother Mac, I have no problem with your wardrobe. Would like to see a touch more knee in the photo though.


    :thumbup1:

    P.S. That's a really nice head piece.
     
  8. Observer

    Observer Registered User

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  9. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    One of the best posts ever on this site!!! Should be put in the MOT Hall of Fame.
     
  10. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Yes that was a very pointed statement.

    You know, apron belly coverings are less a fashion statement and more a rite of passage.


    I believe Brother keen Observer's statement only to be rivaled by RedTemplar's statement on spreadsheets several months back.
     
  11. Ashlar

    Ashlar Registered User

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    In Ky , the way you are wearing it in the picture would be appropriate . There is very little of the apron that is actually being covered by your coat that it is not enough to cause a fuss over . I would go into what is acceptable but I would have to go into different styles and cuts of jackets and how one would wear them that it is not worth it .
     
  12. Huw

    Huw Guest

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    Hi Mac.

    Since you're wearing a kilt with your regalia, I guess the Scottish practice may be relevant. In the Grand Lodge of Scotland, the apron is worn under the coat, unlike most other jurisdictions. Always, even when they're wearing an ordinary coat, closed, so that half (or even more) of the apron is covered. Scottish evening dress looks roughly like what you're wearing in the photo, and the apron is worn exactly the way you're doing it. So provided your local rules permit, I reckon you're doing it right.

    T & F,

    Huw
     

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