What Grand Lodge Jurisdictions have you visited & do they go Clockwise?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by rhitland, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    How many GL jurisdictions have you visited?
    Studing circumambulation, I realized we do this in a clockwise motion and after looking the word up in the glossary in the Monitor it specifically states in Texas we move clockwise and I was wondering does any other GL go Counter-clockwise?
     
  2. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    after reading your posts, i hope to the GAotU that you go to grand lodge. masons of texas NEED to have a reunion there. we could have lots of discussions. it seems as if a large part of this community have deep thoughts towards the ritual and can share with each other many thoughts.

    other than that, i'm sorry for posting here, as i have no "true" purpose towards contribution.
     
  3. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    I've seen the EA in three GL, and all were clockwise.
     
  4. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    after more research I dought any GL goes Counter Clock-wise although there is one time in the 3 degree you move in a couter clocke wise motion!? I cannot say when or why in open forum.
     
  5. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    I have sat in lodge in 3 jurisdicitoons, NM, OR and MWPHGLoNM. All go clockwise, except in NM after the circumambulation and then going to the East for inspection they then go back counterclockwise to the SW. In Oregon, all movements are clockwise except as noted above about the one point in the 3rd degree.
     
  6. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    In the Swedish rite, there's not really a circumambulation as we know it from the US, but the FC and the MM degree has something similar and in those cases it is counter clockwise.
     
  7. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I have attended degrees in California, Washington state, Illinois, Texas. I have attended degree practices in Nebraska. All do the circumambulation clockwise from above. I've never heard of a US jurisdiction doing otherwise. The clockwise motion mimics the path of the Sun each day and also the movement of the path as the seasons progress. It symbolizes the forward movement of time.

    In Illinois there is a "purge" step in opening. The SD walks around lodge counter-clockwise from above looking at each Brother to see if anyone needs to be inspected or vouched for. Other jurisdictions use other methods at that point so I'm not sure how many other states do this. At one point I had started to bring up this symbolic error in the floor work with the GL Committee on Ritual but my contact on the committee died and I had started to look towards relocation so I did not pursue the topic with his local replacement Brother. The trouble with hindershins or counter-clockwise is it symbolizes time moving backwards.
     
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  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    This is an excellent question because Freemasonry is based on geometry.

    In one local Scottish lodge both Deacons walk by the shortest route to the altar at the open and close. This means that both walk anti-clockwise. They also do that in dealing with ballots. With the candidate they always move clockwise.

    Here is an experiment: Place your hand in front of your stomach and move it in a horizontal circle clockwise for a while. Feel what it is like in your solar plexus while you do that. Now make an anticlockwise circle for a while.

    What is the difference in sensation?

    What does that mean in the context of lodge ritual?
     
  9. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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  10. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    Just curious,
    Will the anti-clockwise happened in Southern Hemisphere jurisdiction?
    Also the JW will sit in the North?

    Not sure anyone see the logic behind it?
     
  11. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    The argument that the North of the lodge is vacant because the north pole is dark is spurious. During the summer the sun never sets in the far north.

    It is better perhaps to look carefully into the North in the darkness of the 3rd degree. Perhaps it is not vacant at that time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  12. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    No that is not what I was thinking. I haven't stated that North is dark.
    Some rituals retains some hints of the ancient practice, which is both Wardens are sitting in the West, and the JW went to the South to observe the meridian.
    In those rituals that I mentioned, the Master would ask the SW about his "constant place" in the lodge, and the JW his "place" in the lodge, to come to the fact that they are both situated in the West but the JW went to see the meridian as a temporary position in the South.
    So following this logic, the JW has to go to the North to observe the meridian in the Southern Hemisphere, not the South as we normally do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Our degrees are based relative to Jerusalem which is in the northern hemisphere. It does not matter where on the two planets our lodges are, they are or should be representations of King Solomon's Temple. That's easy to figure out on Earth because we are used to using the Sun and the Equator to determine the hemispheres.

    The Moon is tidally locked to the Earth not to the Sun, but the meaning or north and south remain the same. It's just less directly determined by the Sun on that planet.
     
  14. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Some French craft rituals have both Wardens in the West - and then should have diagonal pavements - and 18th and 30th, as far as I have seen, always have both Wardens in the West.

    The JW going to the South from the West is new to me, but it occurs to me that there may be some connection with the difference between the 3 columns (for WM, SW & JW) and the 2 columns, often at the entrance but sometimes in the center of the pavement.

    I suspect the 2 columns reference the legendary columns made by the children of Lamech, one of which could not sink and the other not burn. These I tend to connect with 2 pillars (devices?) that identified(?) the ancient northern and southern Egyptian kingdoms respectively.

    Going to the south to observe the meridian, as you note, only works in the northern hemisphere.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  15. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I see the logic, but here in Victoria Australia (and hence Southern Hemisphere) our JW still sits in the South and we move clockwise. We explain this to newer members by telling them our ritual's origin is in the Northern Hemisphere.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
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