Why the difference time to be raised in Latin countries???

Discussion in 'International Freemasonry' started by Akiles, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. Akiles

    Akiles Registered User

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    Something that actually shock me is the difference between the times that it supposed to be required to be raised to FC (in Latin countries, the rules usually establish a minimum period of 6 months....normally is required at least 18 months....and in USA for example, you only need three weeks) and after that, to be raised to MM (again, in Latin countries rules says at least 6 months.... But usually is required 12 months...while in USA, maybe 6 weeks....), in Latin countries and in English spoken countries....

    Do you know why that difference???
     
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  2. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    I agree with longer wait periods.


    Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.
     
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  3. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    While I do not disagree, I wonder at the purpose. In my Lodge a candidate learns everything that the Brothers know to teach him in 30 days. To set a longer waiting period just for appearances would be mean. Also, you must be a MM to attend Lodge in my jurisdiction. It took three months to put together enough Masons to put on my third degree. This means that after receiving my EA and FC degrees I had no Masonic contact for three months while a degree team was put together. It was not an ideal situation.
     
  4. Akiles

    Akiles Registered User

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    But what is the reason to the different periods??? Why if I am raised in a Latin Countries it could take me 3 years from EA to MM and if I'm raised in a English Spoken Countries only could take me 3 months???


    Saludos.
     
  5. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    So lodges arent allowed to be opened on the ea or fc in ur jurisdiction? How do u turn in proficiency?
     
  6. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    You wait with the tyler. They open in the MM degree, change to the required degree, you are brought in and tested, you leave, they go back to the MM degree and vote.
     
  7. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Because that is what your Grand Lodge says. There are difference between jurisdictions in the U S as well. In Louisiana there is no minimum time between degrees. I took my EA, then 2 weeks later the FC, and 2 weeks after the the MM, 1 month total. Some jurisdictions have one day classes where a candidate can take the Craft Degrees, in one day. Each Grand Lodge is Sovereign and decides the requirements.

    Personally, I do not think it makes a difference, if someone gets all 3 degrees in one day and wants to put forth the effort to study and learn further they will, if not they will not, the same is true if you make them wait 3 years.
     
  8. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    In Louisiana business can only be conducted in the MM Degree, but if it is a called meeting to confer an EA or FC it can be opened in the EA or FC, the Degree conferred, and then be closed in the EA or FC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  9. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    For a while I tracked how many US jurisdictions had returned to the original world wide standard of business in the EA or in the lowest degree of the brothers attending. It was well over half the states by the time all of my jurisdictions were back to the worldwide standard and I stopped tracking.

    If you haven't been tracking grand lodge proceedings in the last decade it's possible the rules have changed and you didn't notice. More of a general statement than specific as members of this board tend to be well up to date. But the obsolete stuff I hear at dinners before meetings tells me a ton of brothers have no idea what has changed in the last decade.
     
  10. HumbleTXMason

    HumbleTXMason Premium Member

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    @Akiles

    I do not know the answer, but I do not see the reason why it has to take so long to go from EA to MM. If I remember correctly, in Texas you must turn in your work within one year of receiving the degree (maybe my Texas brethren can correct me if I'm wrong), but that doesn't mean you have to wait a year to turn it in.

    In my case, I don't have the dates in front of me, but I went from EA to MM in like 4-5 months and was appointed Junior Steward at election time. So, I was an officer of my lodge and been a mason for less than one year. I mentioned this to a brother from Peru, who seem to be very upset about that... he had to wait 3 years to become an MM and a few more years to become an officer. I understood his displeasure, but felt no less of a mason as I had learned the work and passed my examinations and was very active at lodge (that's the reason I was asked to become an officer).

    So, not sure how things work in Panama, but I would recommend you go to lodge and participate as often as you can. You get from masonry what you put into it.
     
  11. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    You may be privy to information about the Grand Lodge of Louisiana that I do not have but this is the information according to the Louisiana Handbook of Masonic Law as revised through the most recent Grand Lodge Session.

    “A Lodge must be opened on the Master Mason Degree to transact business and must give due and timely notice to its members before taking action upon investments, increasing its debts, disposing of property, making any appropriation or transacting business of any unusual nature; provided that a Lodge may be opened on the Entered Apprentice or Fellow Craft Degree at a special meeting called for the purpose of conferring the Entered Apprentice or Fellow Craft Degree, or for conducting a Lodge trial in accordance with Article VI, Section 9 of the General Regulations. Louisiana Handbook of Masonic Law REVISED TO JANUARY 31ST & FEBRUARY l ST, 2015 Digest of Edicts Page 89

    Perhaps you should take your own advice and track your Grand Lodge Proceedings.

    According to the website of LOGIA PANAMERICANA NO. 513 Free and Accepted Masons of the State of California which was chartered in 2005, they are the "first Masonic Lodge in the South of California authorized to work totally in the Spanish language" and since you said it was "near the border" it would obviously be "in the South of California". They were not chartered by a Mexican Grand Lodge and they were not chartered until 2005.
    http://www.calodges.org/no513/English/main page.htm

    You are correct that there are now 3 jurisdictions that operate in California, but none of them are Mexican Grand Lodges:

    §409.030. RECOGNITION OF PRINCE HALL GRAND LODGE OF CALIFORNIA.

    Any other provision of this Code to the contrary notwithstanding, this Grand Lodge recognizes
    the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge Free and Accepted Masons States of California
    and Hawaii, Incorporated as having concurrent jurisdiction with this Grand Lodge within the
    State of California.

    §409.035. RECOGNITION OF THE GRAND LODGE OF IRAN (IN EXILE).

    Any other provision of this Code to the contrary notwithstanding, this Grand Lodge recognizes
    the Grand Lodge of Iran (In Exile), Ancient, Free and Accepted Masons, as having concurrent
    jurisdiction with this Grand Lodge within the State of California.
    California Masonic Code Page 64 and 65

    I don’t know if you are just misinformed or if you fabricated this tale to support the point you were making.
     
  12. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Duplicate post, content removed. The sever was acting crazy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  13. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    I once had the privilege of meeting the Grand Master of Iran in Exile. It was at Grand Lodge many years ago.
     
  14. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Duplicate post, content removed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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  15. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Duplicate post, content removed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  16. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Duplicate post, content removed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  17. montkun

    montkun Registered User

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    My experience was similar to yours, I was initiated to EA and performed my proficiency the following month. Passed to FC in month three, showed proficiency the following month. Was present at three more proficiencies over the following two months, then the lodge went dark for most of August before I was raised to MM. So I ended up reading through most of the third degree nearly a month before my raising because I didn't want to get weak on the information that I previously learned.
     
  18. memphisrite

    memphisrite Registered User

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    In Dominican Republic we take 3 months minimum to go from EA to FC (usually 6+ months) and 5 months from FC to MM (usually 12+ months). Most of the times is not about just waiting, its because besides instruction, in order to pass to next degree, you must do a research job and a presentation about a subject of your degree, that you must present to the members of the lodge. Then you will be called to another meeting for a test on all subjects of your degree.

    Afterwards, the lodge takes around a month to prepare the degree and there you go.

    On the subject of the meetings, most of them are hold in the first degree for administrative porpouses( EA cannot speak nor vote, FC may speak but not vote). This allows EA and FC to learn how to manage a lodge when their turn arrives.
     
  19. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    And to give a perspective from Sweden and the Swedish Rite I can tell you that we have recently lowered the time from 1 year as EA and FC respectively to 6 months for each degree if the brother is sufficiently active. Here almost every lodge meet at least once per month, and the big lodges meet every week so every EA and FC can go to lodge and see his own degree several times before he is passed on to the next. I personally believe it was better when you had to wait one year instead of just rushing through at 6 months. For me a few weeks or just a few days is an unbelievable fast progression.

    The reason we take time for each degree is that the lessons and intricate symbolism have to be integrated and understood before you go on to the next. At least in the Swedish Rite each degree builds upon the ones before, so if you just speed through the degrees there is a great risk of not understanding the whole picture once you are at the top. By having a minimum time in each degree (and the minimum time gets longer and longer for each degree) the brother will have time to reflect on what he have been taught and also see the ritual several times and study the details before he progresses. Once he is a MM he can directly become an officer, but on our system there is no requirement for that.

    Also, the Grand Lodges working with the SweR require that all business are conducted at EA (for the St Johns lodges at least, the system is a bit more complicated than that :) )

    EDIT: Sorry, I didn't noticed I posted in an old thread. I hope it's alright
     
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  20. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Anyone can "learn the work" but to "understand" the work takes months sometimes years.


    Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom
     
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