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Clandestinely made Masons
- Thread starter K4DL
- Start date
I suggest the term “clandestine” is less than helpful. Yes, it is a legitimate term of art in US Freemasonry and has been for some 170 years (see Mackey, Lexicon). It is used in the majority of US rituals.
But it is used inconsistently and has no agreed upon definition. In some grand lodges (e.g., Oklahoma) clandestine is any grand lodge not recognized. In some GLs (Utah) irregular and clandestine are synonyms. Not all GLs (UGLE), even use the term. The Recognition Commission now tends to avoid it, instead using the phrase, “does not appear to meet the standards of recognition.” https://masonicrecognition.org
Certainly, there are groups which are clandestine no matter how one uses the term. See https://thephylaxis.org/bogus/bogus-organizations.html.
As to your particular question, scroll down to Lebanon for one view of the issue: https://masonicrecognition.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-commission-report.pdf
But it is used inconsistently and has no agreed upon definition. In some grand lodges (e.g., Oklahoma) clandestine is any grand lodge not recognized. In some GLs (Utah) irregular and clandestine are synonyms. Not all GLs (UGLE), even use the term. The Recognition Commission now tends to avoid it, instead using the phrase, “does not appear to meet the standards of recognition.” https://masonicrecognition.org
Certainly, there are groups which are clandestine no matter how one uses the term. See https://thephylaxis.org/bogus/bogus-organizations.html.
As to your particular question, scroll down to Lebanon for one view of the issue: https://masonicrecognition.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-commission-report.pdf
CantorArcani
Registered User
I don't see how labeling anyone clandestine does any good. No one jurisdiction owns Freemasonry no matter what anyone tells you. There has always been multiple jurisdictions some recognize each other, some don't. I am a big believer in initiatic efficacy. If someone is getting what they want out of the work and it is helping them to fulfill their lives, it's not up to me to define that for them. IMHO it's far beyond the time to stop pointing fingers and letting people do what they feel is best for them.
K4DL
Registered User
But if your obligation is like mine, it is important to know who they are and not violate your obligation.
CantorArcani
Registered User
Are you sitting in a lodge that is outside the jurisdiction of your home lodge?
CantorArcani
Registered User
So, nothing is clandestine and whatever someone wants to call Freemasonry we should accept as such? Therein lies madness.
CantorArcani
Registered User
You don't have to accept anyone when it comes down to it but going out of your way to insult and hurt people just doesn't seem Masonic to me. Hell, a lot of operative stone masons weren't too hot on the speculatives infiltrating their guilds either.
Also, get right down to it every speculative Mason goes back to some guys making it up.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this just sounds like you want us to legitimize the irregular rite you belong to since you left Regular Freemasonry and joined LDH. I'm not trying to be rude, but that's not how it works.
CantorArcani
Registered User
Don't get me wrong, I am not looking for anyone to legitimize anything, that is what ritual does. Not too worried about jurisdictions outside of mine.