Brent Heilman
Premium Member
I do agree with your opening post. I believe that Christ was saying be tolerant. "Love thy neighbor as thyself" has no exceptions written in.
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Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
- Thread starter CajunTinMan
- Start date
CajunTinMan
Registered User
The point about Buddhism might be miss placed here, but in my research of different religious beliefs I have come across much information. Although we as Masons are to be tolerant we can't accept everyone. Someone might be a good person in every way but that does not mean that they can qualify to be a Mason. I am of course open to debate on this one and will respect any opinions.
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jvarnell
Premium Member
You are right CajunTinMan I do take things defensive when some one tell me what my beleifs are and then tell me they are wrong. Most of the time the beleifs they tell me are mine ..... they are not
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
So Bryan, you are saying that Rome didnt condemn anything that wasn't part of its cannon? What about the Albigensian crusade? The inquisition? Or the fall of the Templars on false grounds? Or the condemnation of freemasonry? Ask your pastor or priest what he thinks of lucifer, then tell me if he believes hes the "light bearer" or Satan. Ask him what he thinks of the 5 pointed star. If I am wrong on everything I've said about Christianity, then you should prove it, since you spear to be the expert on everything. I think your just saying I'm wrong because of your religious convictions and because you don't like me, which leads me to my next point. You can believe Christ is your saviour, and still be tolerant to other faiths. The quote from manly p hall that was posted about bowing to all altars is not literal, but the idea is to respect other people's ideas and beliefs, which you don't. IMO I could care less if you dont like me, ive never met you, so no skin off my back, but if you can't find it in your heart to live up to the idea of what a master mason is, (thats if you do know what it means) then you should have your apron taken away.
So Bryan, you are saying that Rome didnt condemn anything that wasn't part of its cannon? What about the Albigensian crusade? The inquisition? Or the fall of the Templars on false grounds? Or the condemnation of freemasonry? Ask your pastor or priest what he thinks of lucifer, then tell me if he believes hes the "light bearer" or Satan. Ask him what he thinks of the 5 pointed star. If I am wrong on everything I've said about Christianity, then you should prove it, since you spear to be the expert on everything. I think your just saying I'm wrong because of your religious convictions and because you don't like me, which leads me to my next point. You can believe Christ is your saviour, and still be tolerant to other faiths. The quote from manly p hall that was posted about bowing to all altars is not literal, but the idea is to respect other people's ideas and beliefs, which you don't. IMO I could care less if you dont like me, ive never met you, so no skin off my back, but if you can't find it in your heart to live up to the idea of what a master mason is, (thats if you do know what it means) then you should have your apron taken away.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
Remeber, What you believe and what the leaders of christianity or any faith believe, can be different things, and usually are. A christian just wants to be a peaceful Christian. But the leaders seem to want to control and call the shots. Same goes with Islam and Judaism.
Remeber, What you believe and what the leaders of christianity or any faith believe, can be different things, and usually are. A christian just wants to be a peaceful Christian. But the leaders seem to want to control and call the shots. Same goes with Islam and Judaism.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
A lot of you may think I'm intolerant to Christianity, but I'm not. My friends and family are christian and are good people because of it and I love them to death. But for me i went to a catholic school and Christianity was forced on me and the questions I posed to my teachers and priests were not answered at all, and sometimes were outright wrong and the same goes with my Protestant side of my family. Christianity is not for me. I don't think Jesus is
MY saviour, and I don't think he came back or will come back. I think what he preached is a beautiful concept, but IMO it didnt originate with christ. I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is my belief. If a person says I'm wrong, is because it's not their belief, or is it because the history writers got it wrong?
A lot of you may think I'm intolerant to Christianity, but I'm not. My friends and family are christian and are good people because of it and I love them to death. But for me i went to a catholic school and Christianity was forced on me and the questions I posed to my teachers and priests were not answered at all, and sometimes were outright wrong and the same goes with my Protestant side of my family. Christianity is not for me. I don't think Jesus is
MY saviour, and I don't think he came back or will come back. I think what he preached is a beautiful concept, but IMO it didnt originate with christ. I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is my belief. If a person says I'm wrong, is because it's not their belief, or is it because the history writers got it wrong?
jvarnell
Premium Member
Re: Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
Christianity is not just Rome, Rome is the catholics. Just because I am a christian doesen't mean I am a Catholic. Also you seam to blame all bad thing in the Crudsads on Christians which is not fact. I as a Christain do not follow any one that you think is a leader I guess. I am a freeman and follow only what I think is write and good NO ONE or group can not force me to to other wise. If I did not beleive Masons were write and doing good things I would not be one.
Christianity is not just Rome, Rome is the catholics. Just because I am a christian doesen't mean I am a Catholic. Also you seam to blame all bad thing in the Crudsads on Christians which is not fact. I as a Christain do not follow any one that you think is a leader I guess. I am a freeman and follow only what I think is write and good NO ONE or group can not force me to to other wise. If I did not beleive Masons were write and doing good things I would not be one.
jvarnell
Premium Member
Re: Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
No I just think you are confused about what a Christian is colored by what you have been told in school. (which is wrong)
This is some of the stuff they teach you in school without telling you where it comes from.
“The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.”
― Karl Marx
“Religion is the opiate of the masses.”
― Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
― Karl Marx
“Democracy is the road to socialism.”
― Karl Marx
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”
― Karl Marx
Also you are so wrong and with that last sentiance you are trying to shut down any critisum ofwhat you are saying but it won't work. You are just looking at the wrong history writers. You can come up with your own reality but that is only in your head.
No I just think you are confused about what a Christian is colored by what you have been told in school. (which is wrong)
This is some of the stuff they teach you in school without telling you where it comes from.
“The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.”
― Karl Marx
“Religion is the opiate of the masses.”
― Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
― Karl Marx
“Democracy is the road to socialism.”
― Karl Marx
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”
― Karl Marx
Also you are so wrong and with that last sentiance you are trying to shut down any critisum ofwhat you are saying but it won't work. You are just looking at the wrong history writers. You can come up with your own reality but that is only in your head.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
Again, that is not the point I'm making. The mistakes of Rome have penetrated to the other sects of Christianity. YOU may not believe it but most others do. Look at fundamentalist Christianity. They say masonry is satans work, but clearly is not, and you obviously don't believe it, but people do. They also refute science, or change it to conform to their ideals but when the time comes when they need medical science to help cure their ailments, the story changes. The history books don't lie. The crusades in Europe only happened to suppress anything that wasn't in the roman cannon. Heretics. I'm glad that you don't follow religious leaders, but people do, and they influence a lot of peoples minds, including what lucifer means. If you study Latin, Lucifer which is Lucem Ferre, which means light bearer, which was used to describe the rising of Venus at dawn. In some culture such as those in skara brae in the Orkney archipelago had primitive temples, that had small dormer windows that allowed the morning light of Venus in. This was proven because Venus is the only light that shines through this dormer at a calculated rate.
Again, that is not the point I'm making. The mistakes of Rome have penetrated to the other sects of Christianity. YOU may not believe it but most others do. Look at fundamentalist Christianity. They say masonry is satans work, but clearly is not, and you obviously don't believe it, but people do. They also refute science, or change it to conform to their ideals but when the time comes when they need medical science to help cure their ailments, the story changes. The history books don't lie. The crusades in Europe only happened to suppress anything that wasn't in the roman cannon. Heretics. I'm glad that you don't follow religious leaders, but people do, and they influence a lot of peoples minds, including what lucifer means. If you study Latin, Lucifer which is Lucem Ferre, which means light bearer, which was used to describe the rising of Venus at dawn. In some culture such as those in skara brae in the Orkney archipelago had primitive temples, that had small dormer windows that allowed the morning light of Venus in. This was proven because Venus is the only light that shines through this dormer at a calculated rate.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
I find it funny that all of your reference are from Karl Marx, who was a communist. I dont believe in communism, nor cult of personality.
I find it funny that all of your reference are from Karl Marx, who was a communist. I dont believe in communism, nor cult of personality.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
And also bro. Varnell are you sayings beliefs are wrong?
And also bro. Varnell are you sayings beliefs are wrong?
jvarnell
Premium Member
Re: Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
The only thing I have said and I am saying is that your belief that I beleive something,......is wrong. I really beleive that you beleive what you beleive, but don't tell me what you think I beleive because I a Christian.
I can tell you are a 20 something raging agenset the so called "machine", "man" and "Big Bussiness" but some day I beleive you will see enough of the world that tolarance of other's is understanding we are not all out to get you.
I would love to show you how a christian capitalists from big business really make dessions and how we bend over backward to help people despite of them selfs. I tolrate a lot of missconceptions everyday.
The only thing I have said and I am saying is that your belief that I beleive something,......is wrong. I really beleive that you beleive what you beleive, but don't tell me what you think I beleive because I a Christian.
I can tell you are a 20 something raging agenset the so called "machine", "man" and "Big Bussiness" but some day I beleive you will see enough of the world that tolarance of other's is understanding we are not all out to get you.
I would love to show you how a christian capitalists from big business really make dessions and how we bend over backward to help people despite of them selfs. I tolrate a lot of missconceptions everyday.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
First off, I'm not telling you what to believe nor have I. I could really careless what you believe in bro. Varnell, I'm trying show that what was once deemed heretical, isn't at all once one looks in to the origin the matter. I am 26 years old. I'm not against the "man", "big business" or "raging against the machine" although I do like their music. These things are what make our
Societies so successful. My problem is when these groups abuse the system. Im all for capitalism and free enterprise, but not when a foreigner is I'm control of my money. Frankly bro. Varnell I don't want to see the world like you, or Christianity. I respect and tolerate Christianity despite what you say. I have had numerous conversations with Cajun about our beliefs and it's never disrespectful, and I think despite our beliefs we are good friends. ( we just gotta meet in person). My generation is very different from yours. I see the world differently than you do. Christianity IMO is not going to
Make me be more tolerant to other ideas. The choice I make to be tolerant is what makes me tolerant, and knowing why it's good to be tolerant is what keeps me from being intolerant. The beauty of masonry is that I can believe this and still call you brother.
First off, I'm not telling you what to believe nor have I. I could really careless what you believe in bro. Varnell, I'm trying show that what was once deemed heretical, isn't at all once one looks in to the origin the matter. I am 26 years old. I'm not against the "man", "big business" or "raging against the machine" although I do like their music. These things are what make our
Societies so successful. My problem is when these groups abuse the system. Im all for capitalism and free enterprise, but not when a foreigner is I'm control of my money. Frankly bro. Varnell I don't want to see the world like you, or Christianity. I respect and tolerate Christianity despite what you say. I have had numerous conversations with Cajun about our beliefs and it's never disrespectful, and I think despite our beliefs we are good friends. ( we just gotta meet in person). My generation is very different from yours. I see the world differently than you do. Christianity IMO is not going to
Make me be more tolerant to other ideas. The choice I make to be tolerant is what makes me tolerant, and knowing why it's good to be tolerant is what keeps me from being intolerant. The beauty of masonry is that I can believe this and still call you brother.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
I can also say I tolerate a lot of misconceptions too.
I can also say I tolerate a lot of misconceptions too.
jvarnell
Premium Member
Re: Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
I rage agenst the words "Deemed Heretical" and generalities like "Christianity IMO". If some group said something once can minds and harts not be changed? Also know of no one that can "make" you do anything. The only person that can "make" you do anything is your self. you can blame it on someone else but it is still you. I am sorry for you that you don't want to see the world like me because I always see it as a full glass....sometimes it is half water and half air but always full. And if you walked in my shoes you would see that capitalisam is the only way to liberty because you are the only one in control of your destiny and Masonary and Religion are the only way to give it bounds.
As we say here in the great Republic of Texas "We just got to keep it between the bar ditches"
Churchill-
"If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're older, you have no brain."
I think you have a lot of hart.
I rage agenst the words "Deemed Heretical" and generalities like "Christianity IMO". If some group said something once can minds and harts not be changed? Also know of no one that can "make" you do anything. The only person that can "make" you do anything is your self. you can blame it on someone else but it is still you. I am sorry for you that you don't want to see the world like me because I always see it as a full glass....sometimes it is half water and half air but always full. And if you walked in my shoes you would see that capitalisam is the only way to liberty because you are the only one in control of your destiny and Masonary and Religion are the only way to give it bounds.
As we say here in the great Republic of Texas "We just got to keep it between the bar ditches"
Churchill-
"If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're older, you have no brain."
I think you have a lot of hart.
jvarnell
Premium Member
Re: Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
The missconceptions I was aluding to was the oucupy groups in the US and how bad us BB guys are. If you want to keep good jobs in the countery you have to let BB work with out being ham strung. if you want to have to create new jobs because you have lost jobs you want to help small business. If the goverment gets out of the way both will happen to save and create jobs. Those that are evyous think the other is greedy but envy is just as bad as greed.
The missconceptions I was aluding to was the oucupy groups in the US and how bad us BB guys are. If you want to keep good jobs in the countery you have to let BB work with out being ham strung. if you want to have to create new jobs because you have lost jobs you want to help small business. If the goverment gets out of the way both will happen to save and create jobs. Those that are evyous think the other is greedy but envy is just as bad as greed.
CajunTinMan
Registered User
My dear Brothers I love you both but this might be a conversation better discussed in private between two brothers and not in front of the profane.
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
Not a problem brother, it's been done. But back to the original topic of tolerance; we are required as masons to be tolerant of other beliefs, creeds and dogmas. That doesn't mean you have to follow or believe them. They all have a shred of truth, which if they didn't we would acknowledge them. Be a christian, and embrace it. Be a Muslim and embrace it. Be a Jew and embrace it. Even Buddha, although not monotheistic, still has lessons of peace and love among men and women alike. Let us embrace our OB, let us embrace our masonry. I think that quote by Bro. Manly p hall is bang on.
Not a problem brother, it's been done. But back to the original topic of tolerance; we are required as masons to be tolerant of other beliefs, creeds and dogmas. That doesn't mean you have to follow or believe them. They all have a shred of truth, which if they didn't we would acknowledge them. Be a christian, and embrace it. Be a Muslim and embrace it. Be a Jew and embrace it. Even Buddha, although not monotheistic, still has lessons of peace and love among men and women alike. Let us embrace our OB, let us embrace our masonry. I think that quote by Bro. Manly p hall is bang on.
CajunTinMan
Registered User
You should respect each other and refrain from disputes; you should not, like water and oil, repel each other, but should, like milk and water, mingle together.
Buddha
Buddha
widows son
Premium Member
Is Masonry "guilty" of teaching toleration?
Like a well whisked dressing.
Like a well whisked dressing.