Some advice for Mason Adept - when reading Coach's comments, it's useful to keep in mind his nomenclature around "Masonic/Masonry" and 'Freemason/Freemasonic". He used these quite specifically. Sometimes he uses them to have a little joke with posters. I believe Coach uses "Freemason" when talking about the organisation and its devices, including ritual, particularly ritual, and "Masonic" when looking at the supposed end result of the "Freemasonic" vehicle - self development/improvement (correct me if I am wrong Coach). It's not a nomenclature I use, but can see it's useful.
When the thread started, i asked for clarification and Adept said
I then said "but allegory was a tool from pre-plato days and even the Regis Manuscript talks of the ordinances of "geometry" which is used in allegory for moral behaviour.... so, if you accept that document as part of proto-Freemasonry, then yep, I think we can say allegory was present somewhat early.. They certainly had models in the Old and New Testaments, which would have been socially significant..."
I thought someone would jump on that.. is the "Geometry" really an allegory in the Regis Poem ? Or is it a metaphor, or perhaps simile ? Is it really a proto-masonic document (what do you think Coach, is it a link people make purely to support a transition argument ?
What is interesting is how backward looking all this is. How backward looking Freemasons are...antiquity somehow legitimizing things "ancient freemasonry", the "golden fleece" and "brother Pythagoras". Don't get me wrong, the origins of Freemasonry are interesting and I think they help us understand what we were, and were not, and our traditions today... but all this backward looking often consumes us and stops us looking forward or even in the present. I love history, and I do think it is a tool to understand today, but so far, origins of Freemasonry consists of theories, with varying degree of evidence. I like Rip's post because he started with "Heres what I think happened...."... because really, that's the best I think we've got...and I always remember the saying "A suborn man does not hold opinions, they hold him"...
Still, I am enjoying the debate team going at it....