Questions about your organization.

[widows son]

"Then I skimmed Pike's book dogma (the thing is just tooooo long). And his book seems to be similar. Your organization seems to be neoplatonic in nature."

Skimming through Morals and Dogma isn't going to do you any good. I've read it three time and still haven't grasped everything in it. I also have a very early turn of the century copy of it (1905) and is in the archaic language of the time, making it a bit more difficult to decipher.

"Hall in his work also clearly states that another goal of your organization is the suppression of man's animal instincts. Which again is platonic."

Pike also referred to this in Morals and Dogma

"If Hall is a good Mason, then he took a vow to not publish the secrets of Freemasonry in any way, whatsoever, that would allow them to be known to non-Masons. If he's not obeying this vow, that makes him an oathbreaker, and thus not to be trusted."

Of course, in any of Halls works, he never reveals any secrets that any mason can't reveal. No words, grips, or passwords.

 

[Michael Hatley]

Well what book best describes masonic thought?

If you had to choose one, in the United States, the Holy Bible is probably closest. In many lodges, a family Bible actually is distributed to newly raised Master Masons. I received one.

Does that mean that every Master Mason has read it, in its entirety? No, certainly not.

It also does not mean that every Master Mason believes that it is to all be taken literally, though some do. Allegory is a word well known to us.

It also does not mean that every Master Mason is a Christian. Some lodges may give copies to their members of the Gitas, or the Torah, or nothing at all.

No, in truth, I reckon the book that best describes Masonic thought, for that jurisdiction is the Monitor. And the bylaws.

The bulk of our ethos is an oral tradition which relies on no written word. It is not a philosophy in that sense. It is an experience and a journey, and trying to dissect it into formulas, theories and science is tough to do. Impossible, in my opinion. To build on, yes. To explain and create the perspective and foundation, no.

Its like trying to experience the military by reading about tactics and strategy, or military history. Nothing substitutes for living through basic training and being deployed. Or describing the taste of a strawberry to someone who has never had the sense of taste. You can write and read a great description, but sans the experience it is a mental exercise which never comes close to what it really is.

And that sense oriented portion, the living of it, that is more a part of Freemasonry than any single text by such a long way that I think you'll find most answers to the question I'm trying to answer inadequate. It isn't because we are trying to obfuscate or be evasive, or make it mystical. Its just pretty well how it is.

Freemasonry in my opinion is about 3 parts soul to about 2 parts mind. But see, I say something like that to try and explain, and what is just my own metaphor could be interpreted as "what does the 3 signify" and so on and so forth. Some folks have done that and driven on with it with relish, and so you get a lot of diverging opinions and over complication, tangents and whatnot.

Again, I think you'll find that most Masons who are reader types read a very wide selection of texts. Same as any other intellectual sort.

Personally speaking, if I had to choose one single book to save in a zombie apocalypse, Morals and Dogma would be pretty far down my list.

Now a good book on Geometry.....that is another story.

 

[widows son]

"The bulk of our ethos is an oral tradition which relies on no written word. It is not a philosophy in that sense. It is an experience and a journey, and trying to dissect it into formulas, theories and science is tough to do. Impossible, in my opinion. To build on, yes. To explain and create the perspective and foundation, no."

- I like this.

 

[Roy Vance]

"The bulk of our ethos is an oral tradition which relies on no written word. It is not a philosophy in that sense. It is an experience and a journey, and trying to dissect it into formulas, theories and science is tough to do. Impossible, in my opinion. To build on, yes. To explain and create the perspective and foundation, no."

- I like this.

You would like this. I have watched you go back and forth on several of the threads. You ain't half bad at it. LOL.

 

[widows son]

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Michael Hatley]

I read it as "damned hippies" :lol:

Just jesting, just jesting - lets be friendly

 

[stuntman98]

Wow..........................

Freemason Connect Mobile

 

[Michael Hatley]

Just to be clear, I figured Bro Vance didn't mean anything by it and figured I'd try and make a funny with myself as part of the joke. My best buddy is an accountant and when I wax philisophical calls me a damned hippie (the rascal knows hipsters drive me nuts, went back to school a while back, etc etc)

Im in the parking lot of the Shrine Circus and may be away from here all day volunteering, and just wanted to make sure noone took it the wrong way.

Anyhow, have a good one fellas!

 

[Roy Vance]

What's that supposed to mean?

I meant it as a compliment. You have some very good information to impart and you make your points very well. I guess I just said it like the country boy I am. Sorry if I offended. It was not intended that way.

 

[widows son]

My apologies to you. It's tough to determine tone through text. Ill be sure to analyze comments more thoroughly the next time. Thank you for your kind words though. Again MY apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[securitiesnerd]

I wanted to thank everyone for your input. You actually did a lot more than you realize. As i said earlier I have a extensive Jesuit education from elementary to undergraduate. And despite going through that much Catholicism and being of irish heritage and all, the education convinced me not to be a catholic. I ended up being Episcopalian which is an identical religion except for the fact that Episcopalians allow dissent. They expect everyone to form their own view of their religion. They allow some people to think women priest are wrong and some to think its right. And if your a woman who thinks its right then you can be a woman priest just because you say so. If you are priest who wants to get married you can. You can view homosexuality as right or wrong same with abortion. Its a religion that promotes independent thought and is a church that in general wants discourse not drones.

I got the interpretation from you all that this is how masonry works. That makes sense to me. Masonry is i guess post modern and feels no one person is capable of all the answers.

I liked most mr Maloney's responses. If anything is clear is that mans in-depth understanding of the enlightenment. I felt like i was reading Rousseau, or smith, or Locke (who were all masons). I get you really believe in their ideas. All men are equal, etc. On the enlightenment, i always felt like their friend who wasn't officially ever recognized as a mason but for some reason knew them. David Hume. I love his reaction to their works which basically reduces to the ideas that he wished he could live in a world run by their principals but that men were just to corrupt to ever see them all work. Looking at washington DC today, I think hume was right. Men are just too corrupt to make it work. If you read Locke's "born free" argument and then think about the name "free mason" itself you realize how deeply they were ingrained in that argument. I think this is evident by Layfette (a mason and on the 1900 dollar with washington) coming to USA to make sure we won the revolution to see a start of the end of monarchy. I realize it still is a very active thought with your group. All men born equal, no group of people are born more capable of leading, and everyman is born free from any government's ruling them, but by choice they allow the government to regulate them knowing if they get upset with the government they'll just change who the government is.

I just wanted to thank you all and I think I understand your organization more

 

[widows son]

Has your experience here made you think about joining the fraternity?