The source of all things

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by pointwithinacircle2, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

    803
    843
    113
    It seems that one of the perennial questions that people ask is "Where did that come from?". I recently read what I thought was an interesting answer to this question. It said, "All things begin as thought".

    As I considered this I found myself looking at my watch and thinking "before this watch existed on my wrist it existed in the mind of the person who designed it". Then I thought about how time had to exist in someones mind before a device for measuring it could be invented. By then it certainly seemed that a lot of things began as thought.

    Then I considered my feelings. Previous to this I had considered my feelings to be reactions to outside events. But I realized that between the event and the feeling there was a moment where I thought about and what was going on. In that moment I "chose" how I was going to feel.

    Of course as this idea is expanded to take in more things it becomes more difficult to support. I cannot prove, for example, that before the earth was created it existed as a thought. However the concept that all things come from thought seems worthy of investigation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
    BroBook and Curtis Helsley like this.
  2. Curtis Helsley

    Curtis Helsley Premium Member

    7
    6
    3
    One of the principles of Hermeticism states that "All is Mind", meaning that thought IS the sole originator of all things, in the instance of creation the thoughts of what we know as God. To take it further, it also espouses that Mind is simply a higher frequency of existence than the physical (above the physical but below the spiritual). I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong (as that's a decision each one of us has to make in our own journey), but your train of thought reminded of that. If you're inclined to explore the Hermetic philosphy, The Kybalion is a good primer that speaks significantly about that very idea that you posed, namely that all things derive from thought and Mind.
     
    jwhoff likes this.
  3. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    This does seem to me a rather male view of causation - males being particularly strong mentally.

    A more female approach might be to say: All is Love.

    And there might be other approaches such as: All is Will.

    And of course leading to the question: Whose thought/love/will is the cause?
     
    jwhoff likes this.
  4. Curtis Helsley

    Curtis Helsley Premium Member

    7
    6
    3
    I'm not necessarily sure I see "Mind" as being more inclined toward the masculine or the feminine, and I see Will as meaning the same thing in this context. I view the word "Mind" in this instance as meaning "the substance from which creation springs forth", Will could equally be applied, whereas I think of "Love" as more of a purpose than a cause in and of itself. Of course these are all just words that have finite meanings, which makes their usage problemtic when you're talking about the infinite and the spiritual.

    From the Hermetic perspective (and I'm just a student of various philosophies and do not claim to wholly espouse or be an expert on any single one), God is THE Mind from which all creation springs forth. God's origin is none, nor is God's creative impulse driven by a finite concept such as Love (as espoused by many traditional Christian doctrines).

    I personally DO believe that our notion of Love is a pale reflection of God's own character, but what I believe and what is true is probably separated by a wide chasm, which is why I find the exploration of philosophies different than what I was brought up with fascinating and enlightening.
     
    jwhoff and Morris like this.
  5. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

    803
    843
    113
    I like the term Construct, which is defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy) as:

    "A construct in the philosophy of science is an ideal object, where the existence of the thing may be said to depend upon a subject's mind. This, as opposed to a real object, where existence does not seem to depend on the existence of a mind."

    I suggest that Thought, Will, and Love are all constructs, meaning they depend on the mind for their existence. I could add to this list by suggesting words like Justice, Liberty, and Equality. When viewed in this way it seems to me like the most important things in life are those that exist only in the mind.
     
  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    That seems to lead to a relative frame of reference with no absolutes unless by mind you mean the Mind of the Cosmos. Even then I ask myself does the Cosmos have more than Mind?
     
  7. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

    803
    843
    113
    So tell me, what did you decide? Does the Cosmos have more than mind?
     
  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    >Does the Cosmos have more than mind?

    That is my experience.

    You may have noticed that without much scriptural backing English-speaking groups have decided that "our God is a god of Love". This is certainly not an Old Testament view where the god was self-proclaimed as jealous and vengeful, but it is commonly supported by mystics over the centuries.

    There is a Hindu tradition that this solar system forms the body of manifestation for the second incarnation of the Solar Logos. His first incarnation was a manifestation of Mind when He learned to control matter and intelligence. This was followed by the pralaya as He went out of incarnation.

    This second manifestation of the solar system is said to be of Love - that is the Solar Logos is developing relationship. (This is why harmony in the lodge is the first requirement and those that disturb the harmony must leave).

    After the next pralaya it is said that the solar system will be based on Will. Then indeed the lukewarm followers may be symbolically thrown into the ocean as previewed in the New Testament.
     
    jwhoff likes this.
  9. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

    590
    236
    63
    I would add the obvious, there has to be a thinker, my instructor used to always say thought comes from not knowing.
     
  10. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    This rather reminds me of Descartes: Cogito, ergo sum. (I think, therefore I am)

    Of course it is not possible for me to think unless I already exist, so that thinking is not really a proof of existence. These days we might also add some comment on virtual reality.

    So how could thought exist without a cause? Surely a thinker must exist first, and what is the thinker doing before it thinks? If the thinker can do anything other than think then that other action might be the beginning of all things (and all thinks)
     
  11. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

    803
    843
    113
    :) And isn't that the beginning of all thoughts about Diety? Man says: Everything that I create begins as thought, therefore my creation must have begun as the thought of something greater than myself.
     
  12. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    I am not sure how true that is. I recall various times when instinctively, without conscious thought, I found better ways to do things. Should I claim that instinct is thought also?
     
  13. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

    803
    843
    113
    You are correct that I am using the term thought in a very broad sense. Perhaps "in the mind" would be a more accurate phrase.
     
  14. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

    1,749
    546
    113
    Perhaps "intelligence" is even better than mind as a descriptor being somewhat broader. These days it is common to speak of emotional intelligence, and it is common to be trained in physical intelligence such as bicycle riding and dancing.

    As far as I can see the intelligence of the Source extends through all manifested Existence. Of course the Will and Love of the Source extend similarly. And there may be other qualities of the Source currently unknown to humans that also extend through all.
     

Share My Freemasonry