What would you do

[Thestoat]

Without disclosing too much, what would happen in Texas if an ea went through his initiation with his wedding ring on, and took it off half way through, and then also didn't wear black socks, but dark blue with light blue toes, would you suspect him of cheating, would you consider him a mason, would you make him re do the ceremony, I've got a master mason friend who's getting upset at it, so an opinion from people far away would be handy, before this gets out of hand

 

[Dave in Waco]

Not the EA's fault. It's the fault of the brethren preparing him. They should make sure he is properly prepared.

 

[Michaelstedman81]

Not the EA's fault. It's the fault of the brethren preparing him. They should make sure he is properly prepared.

My thoughts exactly. Don't we make sure that everyone is properly clothed to be in lodge? While normally it seems to be a formality that is just blown through, I think that it should be really paid attention to when it comes to the ceremonies and those that are recieving the degrees. I know that when I was getting my EA and I was in the room getting prepared, I had four or five guys, aside from the three that were in the room with me, that came in and overlooked what I was wearing and asked to make sure I didn't have anything that I wasn't supposed to have on my person.

I know putting on degrees really isn't like being in the military, but before we would roll out the wire when I was in the Army we would do PCC/PCIs. Pre-Combat Checks and Pre-Combat Inspections. Just to make sure that everyone had ALL of the gear they were required to have, plus the stuff that we might end up needing.

would you suspect him of cheating, would you consider him a mason, would you make him re do the ceremony

And as for the actual question of the post, no I would consider him to be cheating and I would still think that he is a Mason. What is there to be cheating at, and also what good would it do to make him redo the ceremony. At the most, I think that the ceremony can be stopped and he be made to take off what wasn't allowed and put on the things that are required for the symbolism. Maybe another Brother has an extra pair of socks out in his truck he can use? If he has already gone through the ceremony, then there is no point in going through it again and he has already earned that degree.

Again, it should be checked at the door by the Brothers helping to prepare him.

 

[Thestoat]

Yes thankyou, the ea was not at fault clearly, the people preparing him are at fault, just shows some lodges aren't that good at preparing ea for initiation I guess, probably a case for no further action, with a don't let it happen again attitude?

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

Hey Michael

I was a visitor to the lodge, so I didnt say anything, but I will say before my initiation, I was properly prepared, gotta be careful not to upset people, but your right, others shouldve made sure he was prepared, this sort of thing can't get a hold in masonry over here, as that ea could be just as lax when he carries out an initiation one day on a new ea, and then it would continue down the years.

Even worse, we are close to a few military lodges as well, my great grandfather when he was bringing me up always said, proper planning and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

My great-grandfather brought me up to be a mason from birth, so I kinda live it out everyday, every day I live the teachings and the life, striving to further the cause of science and human kind, I guess for some it's more of a social get together and a social evening, for me, it's a way of life to be cherished.

I guess having a family that have been proven masons since 1390 means I like it done right, and some people dont understand this.

 

[Michaelstedman81]

just shows some lodges aren't that good at preparing ea for initiation I guess, probably a case for no further action, with a don't let it happen again attitude?

You are right. It is not the EA's fault at all. He has no clue what is going on or what is about to happen (or shouldn't), much less what he is supposed to wear or not wear. Besides, does the MM in question know for sure or not that the WM didn't notice this before, and when approached by the WM there was no other alternative as the EA wasn't told what exactly to bring?

This might be something that needs to be addressed with the WM so that he can address to the whole Lodge in a general manner instead of coming down on the Brothers that are charged with preparing the candidate. Just in an FYI manner. But there is no reason for the MM to be getting upset or making a big scene of it all. If he is that heartfelt about it, then he needs to volunteer to be the one preparing the candidate or at least going in there to double check that he is prepped correctly.

 

[Thestoat]

This has been so helpful michael, yes the brethren shoulda said something, you know the ea didn't even put on white gloves at the end!

 

[Michaelstedman81]

as that ea could be just as lax when he carries out an initiation one day on a new ea, and then it would continue down the years.

proper planning and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

Both statements are very true, my friend. So, you haven't been initiated yet?

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

Hey, just curious. Where is this lodge that you visited and where you from?

 

[Thestoat]

This has been so helpful michael, yes the brethren shoulda said something, you know the ea didn't even put on white gloves at the end!

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

Hey Michael,

I am initiated, was initiated last month, the lodge was in England, and I'm currently an ea, studying for my fellow craft.

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

Hey Michael,

I am initiated, was initiated last month, the lodge was in England, and I'm currently an ea, studying for my fellow craft.

 

[Michaelstedman81]

Ah, rock on. Congrats on that. I can see some things that differ in the lodges across the big pond...lol How are you enjoying your work?

 

[Thestoat]

Hey man, sent you a pm,

I'm loving my work, it's good, and it's really helping me in my life as well, and helping me make sense of the lessons I was taught as a kid.

Your right, the mm I think was more shocked than anything, and hopefully the wm will address it at lodge another time, can't continue etc.

Some things are different over here yes, but we are mostly the same, I would say if anything, you boys in Texas are more traditional, you follow more of the old ways, one day I may go over and see for myself, my great grandad went to new York state once, and made contact with masons there, but to go to Texas would be even better!

I kinda told my mate I was going on here to let you boys decide, so it's all done in my mind and forgotten now.

Sure am happy to be a mason though.

From your avatar picture, looks like your military, if you ever go on joint operations with uk lodges, it's worth asking around, as a lot of regiments have their own traveling lodges, so then you'd see masonry first hand from our view as it were

 

[Bill Lins]

Remember that the degrees are symbolic. Many men have a problem with removing their wedding rings, so they (the rings) are exempted from the requirement. As we want the candidate to see & understand what is going on by the point in the degree where it matters, we also exempt glasses from the requirement.

There is no point in our initiations where white gloves are required for anyone, the candidate included.

As to the socks, we don't care what color they are as long as he is wearing the correct number of them in the appropriate location. YMM, and apparently does, V.

Sounds to me like the MM you're referring to needs more to do, rather than worrying about such minor issues. As others have stated above, the fault, if any, attaches to the Lodge, not the candidate and no way should he be penalized for the failings of the Lodge.

 

[Beathard]

When someone can't or won't remove their wedding band, you could put a flesh colored band-aid over it.

I was SD and accidentally forgot to have my son put his apron on for the second section. Was not his fault. It was mine (and the MCs). The brethren let me know before we took our second step into the lodge.

Silver-lining: my son will probably never forget his apron.

 

[cacarter]

I'm guessing the black socks is a UK thing?

 

[Bill Lins]

Guess so- the white gloves, too, I suspect.

 

[Thestoat]

Yes the black socks and white gloves must be limited to over here, we also only wear black suits and ties, and black shoes.

From what I am getting the more senior lodge members shoulda stepped in, but my understanding is that black socks, whitegloves and such are just a dress code, and you dont wear this sort of thing in Texas.

Have passed your comments on, this forum sure seems to be the place to go if you have any questions.

 

[tom268]

What is there to be cheating at, and also what good would it do to make him redo the ceremony.

Exactly. Even with red socks, the initiational experience will be there. So, to be straight, you actually CANNOT redo the ceremony. Because it is not a mere ceremony, but an initiation. And you cannot do an initiation on a man, wo is already initiated.

And what would you do, if the candidate can not take off his ring, because his fingers are too thick? Clipp it off? No, I don't think so. The right preparation is part of the ritual, and the ritual is symbolism. We prepare the candidate into a symbolic state of being. If this is not possible, or it was not done correctly, it is no greater harm as an accidentaly tossed over candle.

 

[wwinger]

In Texas, proper preparation is the responsibility of the Master of Ceremonies and the Sr. Deacon.

Five times during each degree an inquiry is made as to the preparation of the candidate. The inquiry is made first of the Master of Ceremonies and then four times of the Sr. Deacon, one of those before the candidate is admitted to the lodge. The candidate is never asked about his physical preparation. There is no way he can or should know what is right. Proper preparation of the candidate is the responsibility of the lodge, not the candidate.

An initiation can be aborted if the candidate does not conform, but, right or wrong, once completed, the man has been initiated and it cannot be done again.

 

[Beathard]

In Texas, proper preparation is the responsibility of the Master of Ceremonies and the Sr. Deacon.

Look a little deeper into the meaning of being prepared. The physical preparation is only the surface layer. Think more about the layers below they physical that would cause a man to be vouched for or to be given a good report.

 

[wwinger]

The physical preparation is only the surface layer.

Of course you are correct. Without thinking, I was was addressing physical preparation only. My bad!

 

[Thestoat]

Yes agree on these points, there were two condidates, one took it seriously, you could see that, the other I could hear laughing, clearly odd, the mm who initially said all of this seems to be coming out with some odd stuff, so I need to try and ignore him, and I think I would leave masonry altogether now, apart from for some reasons.

Main one is, I still have some documents from the year 1390 that I am not allowed to show anyone until a certain password is given me, this was passed on to me by my great grandfather, I have made a few enquiries, to even get to the point where this password is given it will take 6 long years to rise that far, so by leaving I would deny masonry the chance to see this stuff.

I do not suffer fools gladly though, so much more and I will leave.

Guys, its a real honour to be a part of your online community and to get your help on stuff.

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

http://www.crystalinks.com/freemasons.html guy got shot, even if I do leave, this candidates life was saved with you help