I always considered the level of awareness when a person talked about "after 911", etc. We've been very insulated, because we've been at war with Osama and many others for decades. There are others we're battling that Americans have no awareness of and only come up as a foreign policy line item on a budget somewhere.
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25 British-born Muslims are plotting to bomb airliners...
- Thread starter Blake Bowden
- Start date
Traveling Man
Premium Member
9-11-2001
You're a civilian in a country at war. Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.
Traveling Man
Premium Member
Any time there is a target on your back you better be on the defensive: period. The old rules of war and the new PC rules don't apply today. Like it or not, you're it! And we better get used to it.
Hippie19950
Premium Member
If you look at me without the Santa hat, it might be easy to confuse me with one of those who are regarded to be of the "Terror nations" as we have come to be taught. The only thing that would save me, is my German heritage, and the fact that I burn, and don't tan... I have actually been confused by some who have no real idea of what is going on, as a "Muslim", because they group all together, and just figure if you have a beard, and possibly long hair, you just might be one... Now, as for those who are properly trained, it is not a problem (yet). I do fit a portion of the profile though. I usually pay cash, I don't need 5 suitcases just to spend the weekend someplace (usually 2-3 pair of jeans, 2-3 T-shirts and if needed, a couple of shirts with some buttons on them), which can easily be carried in a paper sack under my arm, like.... Ok, like a lunch. But, I am the farthest from someone meaning to do harm to anyone in this country, or any other country, unless you directly tread on me. Then it's Katy Bar the Door!!!!! I don't like the word profiling, because like Muslim, it is too broad, and usually used in the wrong way. As a Peace Officer, I can profile. It's legal. It's not like what is being talked about here, or in the news. If there is something that happens, and I have witnesses who give me a good description, I can check ANYONE who matches that description. It may only be white, hispanic, Asian, (East, Mid-East etc), or black. But, the people you detain and investigate, HAVE to match the PROFILE of the DESCRIPTION you were given, and not "maybe they fit". I myself do not intend to offend anyone, Brother or not. But, as many are expressing here, and elsewhere, WE are tired of being offended, and attacked. In the United States, We the People have NO RIGHTS, until we commit a crime. Those who are exercising their Rights, have either committed an offense, or are being investigated for the commission of the crime. We have reasonable expectations of these Rights, but don't expect them just whenever you think you want them. Just look around. I have a good friend who has a tag line I like, If you don't stand be hind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them. I want to know how many Muslims were present when the Revolutionary Was was fought, or how many came here with the Pilgrims to settle here, to get away from the King? But yet, we must allow them to share OUR Rights, and buckle to their being offended... I am one of MANY Proud Veterans here who served to make sure this Country remained Free, and to be a safe place for us all.
Disclaimer: The toes I have stepped on were not done intentionally, but they were there, in my way, and it was not within my ability to avoid pouncing as hard as I could before they were moved. My rant is over for now...
Disclaimer: The toes I have stepped on were not done intentionally, but they were there, in my way, and it was not within my ability to avoid pouncing as hard as I could before they were moved. My rant is over for now...
Traveling Man
Premium Member
And here we have some more Alice in Wonderland Mad hatter logic…
And of course not following the flight deck personel instuctions is a Federal crime…
This would mean our “Flying Dutchman” friend would be a criminal while the “alleged” “Undie-Bomber” (not to be confused with the “Uni-Bomber“) will receive all the “rights we can bestow“.
Just to be clear:
We have to love the paranoid “Victims of mistaken Profiling” throwing themselves upon the altar of the innocence. (in the real world we call this “baiting” with a “straw man“) That notwithstanding we are discussing “character” and “behavior” profiling through “validated observations” and “actions“, i.e. sorting for ducks while picking out a few pigeons (only pigeons dressed as ducks, i.e. ducks seem to appear to have a walk unlike those of pigeons) to satisfy some group that tries to hamstring and use intimidation tactics (and terrorize) individuals that are trying to protect the flying masses (and everyone else) from the few. As hard as one likes, they still will not fit “The Profile”. I suppose one could if they really wanted to, but then they should be culled for a “melon examination“; grounds for profiling.
As Continentals’ motto: “Work hard, fly right (intimidated, scared and without dignity)”.
Is it just me or has anyone else ever noticed that when flying the first international flights out in the morning, when arriving early for your “strip search and loss of dignity” ritual that the TSA is not there as prescribed? Yet we have to be there two hours early, for what, because they can?
None of the above is intended to be offensive, please do not construe it as such.
And of course not following the flight deck personel instuctions is a Federal crime…
This would mean our “Flying Dutchman” friend would be a criminal while the “alleged” “Undie-Bomber” (not to be confused with the “Uni-Bomber“) will receive all the “rights we can bestow“.
Just to be clear:
We have to love the paranoid “Victims of mistaken Profiling” throwing themselves upon the altar of the innocence. (in the real world we call this “baiting” with a “straw man“) That notwithstanding we are discussing “character” and “behavior” profiling through “validated observations” and “actions“, i.e. sorting for ducks while picking out a few pigeons (only pigeons dressed as ducks, i.e. ducks seem to appear to have a walk unlike those of pigeons) to satisfy some group that tries to hamstring and use intimidation tactics (and terrorize) individuals that are trying to protect the flying masses (and everyone else) from the few. As hard as one likes, they still will not fit “The Profile”. I suppose one could if they really wanted to, but then they should be culled for a “melon examination“; grounds for profiling.
As Continentals’ motto: “Work hard, fly right (intimidated, scared and without dignity)”.
Is it just me or has anyone else ever noticed that when flying the first international flights out in the morning, when arriving early for your “strip search and loss of dignity” ritual that the TSA is not there as prescribed? Yet we have to be there two hours early, for what, because they can?
None of the above is intended to be offensive, please do not construe it as such.
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After each of these attacks or attempted attacks there is open discussion about racial and religious profiling. From talking heads to elected officials and certainly
Maybe the confusion is the consistent complaint of Political Correctness and "not profiling." While there have been several suggestions that we aren't talking about racial, ethnic or religious profiling - but *only* behavioral profiling, nobody has seemed to explain what is "politically incorrect" about profiling based on behavior and who is objecting to the idea of full behavioral profiling?
I've seen many call for it over the years.
I'm glad you joined the thread talking about behavioral profiling, but I don't think that's the profiling first mentioned or joined in by others in this thread. And again, maybe its the consistent complaints against "PC" joined in on the subject, which today indicates race, ethnicity and religion.
[9-11-2001
You're a civilian in a country at war. Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.[/QUOTE]
Brother Drape, If you absolutely do not think that this country is at war, then I implore you to come work a couple of shifts with me on patrol. I can not dispute that we, in the states, are not being bombed on a regular basis. But i can say with no uncertainty that depending upon where you live within the U.S. you do have to be very careful so that you are not gunned down in the street, just as you would in a third world country. I am not threatened on a daily basis with someone trying to kill me, however after 13 years of service I have been there on more than one occasion. And as mentioned before, whenever someone pulls a knife or gun on me I have be as delicate as possible with them in order to not infringe upon thier civil rights!!!!! WHY? Polital correctness! Liberals! Democrats! Take your pick.
It is my opinion that if the war being fought in the middle east was to end and our boys brought home, the front line would be ON OUR DOORSTEP! Our way of life is afforded us because of the blood of brave men and women who have paid the greatest price that could ever be paid. For what?! So that it can be destroyed from the inside out by a man that can't even produce a valid birth certificate!!!!!!!
That's all have to say for now!!!!!!!!!!!!! I may have more to say when I calm down. Sorry for the rant Brothers.
You're a civilian in a country at war. Tell an Afghan or Iraqi civilian war is at your doorstep anywhere near the level it is on theirs (our war on theirs) and they'll either cry or laugh.[/QUOTE]
Brother Drape, If you absolutely do not think that this country is at war, then I implore you to come work a couple of shifts with me on patrol. I can not dispute that we, in the states, are not being bombed on a regular basis. But i can say with no uncertainty that depending upon where you live within the U.S. you do have to be very careful so that you are not gunned down in the street, just as you would in a third world country. I am not threatened on a daily basis with someone trying to kill me, however after 13 years of service I have been there on more than one occasion. And as mentioned before, whenever someone pulls a knife or gun on me I have be as delicate as possible with them in order to not infringe upon thier civil rights!!!!! WHY? Polital correctness! Liberals! Democrats! Take your pick.
It is my opinion that if the war being fought in the middle east was to end and our boys brought home, the front line would be ON OUR DOORSTEP! Our way of life is afforded us because of the blood of brave men and women who have paid the greatest price that could ever be paid. For what?! So that it can be destroyed from the inside out by a man that can't even produce a valid birth certificate!!!!!!!
That's all have to say for now!!!!!!!!!!!!! I may have more to say when I calm down. Sorry for the rant Brothers.
Thank you - the immediate topic was whether there was "war on our doorstep." I don't think we can compare Iraq and Afghanistan to life in the United States.
If you were on patrol in Iraq oer Afghanistan, your threats would rise dramatically. I realize we commonly use war as an analogy for many things in our country, but do you really think you can sit down with a veteran from our recent wars and say you're going through the same thing?
Well, thank God! I grew up between cops and criminals - for more than 13 years. One side targeting me for crime and one seeing themselves at war with me. You can complain about "civil rights" laws, but because people do and because people make gross generalizations and want to act impulsively on them instead of with thought and training - we have the set of laws we do.
I used to laugh when I lived in Tucson and they talked about rising rates of crime, "gangs", etc. because the number of numbers in a year would sound like new years day in Philly.
That said, if I pull a knife on you, you can shoot me and have widespread support. If I pull a stick on you, you could shoot me with support - or at most a reprimand. That said, the Department of Justice is sometimes reviewing this which is why Austin came under review and finally got some reforms.
Thanks for the invitation to patrol, but I know enough dead people to appreciate the dangers you discuss. And I don't think having my "civil rights" rescinded would have helped my mortality growing up or now.
I absolutely agree - except for "if it was to end" - it has to end. It has to end right and the best way is with friendly stable governments.
But, as you said - it's not on our doorstep, the topic of my prior post.
Describe that way of life? Does it involve the much maligned "civil rights" ?
Seriously? Forged newspaper clippings from decades ago, forcing support of a GOP Hawaiian governor on the legitimacy of the documentation and the Manchurian candidate - to support a secret Muslim (and radical Christian) who eventually will tie a nuke to him and walk into a mall?
I'm thinking Denzel shouldn't have been in the last Manchurian Candidate movie.
Hippie19950
Premium Member
There is a war on our doorstep, two-fold, but it is NOT the war in which most are referring to. This war is one that Brother LJ, myself, and many others have been engaged in for quite some time. Some will laugh, and say it really isn't a war, and continue to speak out against it, until it involves one of their loved ones, and then we are not doing enough. On top of that, we cannot directly use the U.S. Military to fight either of these. They can only assist us, and not in a direct way. This is part of the so called Rights of the criminal, and making sure our politics are correct. Other wise, heads roll, and this war is set back, and funding taken away. Now, you being in Austin, may not even know about it, or may not have been affected by it, but I know different. You having been in Tuscon, have been affected by it. I am from the Indianapolis area, via Az., and Austin. So, been there, fought the fights, and taken the hits when they came. I am of a strong German background. First thing folks say or think, is what occurred during WWII. My family is still paying for those PC incorrect actions, and will continue, even though WE did NOT have anything to do with them. As with insurance here, if you keep crashing your car, I end up paying for it... I really don't give a Rat's A** about being politically correct. It SUCKS big time!!! I have never been able to walk on any kind of egg without breaking it, and I refuse to spend all my life trying to walk on them, and not break them... It ain't gonna happen. Get over it!! If you don't like the treatment you, or others are getting here, feel free to go anyplace else in this World that seems to have a better handle on what YOU want. Many chose to run to Canada during the draft of the Viet Nam War. I had the choice to go as well. I stayed, was drafted (#33 IN LOTTERY), and served. Didn't like it, but I didn't run, I stood for what MY Country stood for. When I came home, and TRIED to go to college with my G.I. Bill of Rights, I was constantly attacked by those who said it was not right to do what I did. They were not there where I was, had no idea what any of us actually faced, and didn't want to take the time to find out. After the second physical altercation (not provoked by me), I was expelled from the university. Apparently I was not politically correct material for standing up, and trying to exercise my Rights to get a further education. The persons who started the problems were not given any punishment. As I said in another post, each Texas Peace Officer MUST spend 40 hours every two years on Continued Education. A BIG part of that, is Cultural Diversity. Learning how NOT to OFFEND other races, nationalities, sexes, religions, political affiliations, and the list goes on. And yet, there are those who swear we have a Police State! Get real, and most of all GET OVER IT!!!!! I love this Country, I am satisfied for the most part of what we are doing, and the way I am treated. When I disagree with what the government is doing, I contact my elected officials, and express my views and concerns. If they don't like it, they still heard from me. If they hear from enough of us, and it isn't changed, we look for someone who will. I am NOT impressed with what the current leader of the Country is doing, how he got there, or where we are headed with it. I voted, and hope ALL others here voicing their griefs have done so as well. I would sure hate to think someone who didn't have time to vote, can find time to bitch about this stuff. It is easy enough to find out if I voted, as it is Public Record in Franklin, Texas. If anyone needs bus fare, or gas money to find a better set of Rights, let me know 
Oh, and be sure to see my Disclaimer..............
Oh, and be sure to see my Disclaimer..............Other than what? These groups you speak of are part of the police departments, or should be.
I'm glad to hear Police are required to learn how to communicate effectively with the full depth of the community.
Perhaps the absolute anger at learning to communicate effectively with the communities they must work with is why it is needed. There is no question the history of police action in this country encourages the necessity, but the continued apathy or anger towards having to listen to or communicate with "other sexes" and "other races" shows it even more.
The most effective police departments (outside of authoritarian states) are those that engage with the community, regardless of them being an "other." You can't work with a community if you're not educated about them.
Good police departments engage with communities, as do medical facilities and many other public facing jobs and departments (education, fire safety, energy). Even smart nonprofits and businesses pushing their wares do this.
They can assume or demand a community simply comply with their own perceptions, or they can have a dialogue and discussion. This dialogue also provides a two way communication so the community can hear the concerns of the police as well.
HKTidwell
Premium Member
Well I've said this a thousand times to friends, one American Soldier is worth at least Ten Thousand of anybody else. We stopped WWII by the only means that would have stopped the Japanese. Yes it was bloody and regretful but it was a culture that had to be broken. Shermans March broke the Souths' heart and helped stop the war. Kadalfe(Libya leader) kept doing stuff to the US, we dropped missiles in his palace, killed members of his family, and shut him up for nearly 20 years. In every war that is successful you will find a person that says screw the political correctness and lets finish this in a manner that wins.
We should be tolerant except of intolerance and when you encounter intolerance it should be burned to the ground. I'm very adamant about slum not being rewarded but I'm first in line to help a person that needs help/wants help. You can only help those who want help, otherwise it is a waste of time. I think every person is a profiler, whether you admit it or not we do it. While profiling can help, you must not be locked into a 100% state of mind, what I mean by this is the old man that drives the beat up old truck, talks slow, wears old clothes that have seen better days could quite possibly be a Millionaire. Sometimes what seems to meet the eye is not actually what it is. Reminds me of the photo of the skull.
Just my two cents.
We should be tolerant except of intolerance and when you encounter intolerance it should be burned to the ground. I'm very adamant about slum not being rewarded but I'm first in line to help a person that needs help/wants help. You can only help those who want help, otherwise it is a waste of time. I think every person is a profiler, whether you admit it or not we do it. While profiling can help, you must not be locked into a 100% state of mind, what I mean by this is the old man that drives the beat up old truck, talks slow, wears old clothes that have seen better days could quite possibly be a Millionaire. Sometimes what seems to meet the eye is not actually what it is. Reminds me of the photo of the skull.
Just my two cents.