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Felony Record

JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
i've never really thought of internal vs external in that way, T.N. thanks.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Skip, The word Felony is what I thought was bing discused and I think it needs to more a judgment call than a word. It doesn't take a felony for someone to stop someone else from becoming a member just a single black ball. The word felony is a easy way to tell someone they are not going to join. It is like job postings which say that a bachlors degree is required but when you get the job there is no well defined reasion it is. That degree does not mean you are any smarter but most people that have it are.
 
T

T.N. Sampson

Guest
i've never really thought of internal vs external in that way, T.N. thanks.
You are welcome. I had a totally different view of both until I actually did the research. The benefit of sites such as this is the research topics it brings my way, plus the commentary of Masons.


jvarnell said:
The word Felony is what I thought was bing discused and I think it needs to more a judgment call than a word.
I think you are correct, as Scialytic so well highlighted in his comment on Chuck Colson. Seems to me that there should be more involved than just the fact of a felony on the man's record. Cordially, Skip.
 

scialytic

Premium Member
as Scialytic so well highlighted in his comment on Chuck Colson. Seems to me that there should be more involved than just the fact of a felony on the man's record. Cordially, Skip.

Glad to be of assistance ;-)

As I see it now, the law is the law (not much we can do unless those vested with that authority are compelled or impelled to change it). Depending on the language of the law (which I don't know), either the interpretation could be "what is currently viewed as a felony offense" or could be amended as such.

I agree that a felon should not be accepted. If the definition of a felony changes with time--I would prefer that the point-of-reference be the current statutes, not the old.
 

Brother Joe

Registered User
With all this being said, I have a friend that is curious about joining the fraternity and I am unsure as to how to direct him. When he was 19, he was arrested and charged with felony assault. The circumstances are interesting to say the least. When he was convicted, he was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of assault. I understand that ultimately it is up the voting brethren, but should I help him on his journey and introduce him to members of my lodge? He has had no trouble since then and it was purely a case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
With all this being said, I have a friend that is curious about joining the fraternity and I am unsure as to how to direct him. When he was 19, he was arrested and charged with felony assault. The circumstances are interesting to say the least. When he was convicted, he was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of assault. I understand that ultimately it is up the voting brethren, but should I help him on his journey and introduce him to members of my lodge? He has had no trouble since then and it was purely a case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think your friend should go ahead and patition. He was not convicted of a felony so none of the strict code of conduct guy can stop him.
 

dhouseholder

Registered User
With all this being said, I have a friend that is curious about joining the fraternity and I am unsure as to how to direct him. When he was 19, he was arrested and charged with felony assault. The circumstances are interesting to say the least. When he was convicted, he was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of assault. I understand that ultimately it is up the voting brethren, but should I help him on his journey and introduce him to members of my lodge? He has had no trouble since then and it was purely a case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I guarantee that the DDGM (and possibly higher) will have to get involved.
 

rpbrown

Premium Member
I'm gonna throw a couple of scenario's out there.
1) Look at all of the people that are now being released and convictions overturned because DNA exonerates them. They were convicted because of an eye witness that was mistaken.

2) What about a person that was in the area of a crime and had on similar (not exact but similar) clothes as the actual suspect. He is arrested, and charged. He does not have the money to hire an attorney so gets a court appointed attorney that tells him his only option is a plea to a lessor felony. This man is innocent, in jail and scared so he accepts the plea because his attorney told him he couldn't win in court.

3) This happened to my brother. There was a maintenance man at his appartment that was stealing units and selling for scrap. My brother worked for an a/c company and as such drove a company vehicle home. This maintenance man cut a unit loose on the opposite side of the building from my brothers truck, a neighbor looked out and saw the gas being released and called police. When the police got there, the maintenance man was standing at the unit but told the officer it was my brother that had cut it loose. Even though he had been with me at the time, they arreasted him the next day and charged him with a felony. It cost my brother $3,000.00 in bond and $15,000.00 in attorney fees to get this dismissed. 1st offense and no plea offered as the DA wanted to set a standard. After all was said and done the only reason the charges were dropped is because they caught the maintenance man stealing another unit before my brothers court date.

Although our justice system is not perfect, it is the best we have but mistakes are made. That is why I say leave it to the individual lodge to decide.
 

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
Lay it all completely on the table. Have him be 100% honest and put it out there immediately.

If he wasn't convicted the DDGM won't be required. But with the word "assault", it is likely folks will do a fair bit of covering their butts, so you never can tell.

He'll want to be explaining the situation himself, from his own mouth, to anyone who will listen and will have a vote. Like I say, "assault" is a word that will raise eyebrows if they hear it 2nd or 3rd hand.

Don't rush the petition. Make sure as many men in the room know him, over months, know his story, have felt a good firm handshake and are voting on a person they know, not a name and a shady story.
 

Brother Joe

Registered User
Thats a very good idea. I'm sure the brethren would be more apt to accept him, if they knew him and his unusual story.
 

rpbrown

Premium Member
My son in law who is an ICE agent, just informed me of another instance that could cause someone to be convicted of a felony.

Have you ever, even as a youth, told someone that you were going to whip their ***, give them a beating, beat the snot ot of them, etc?

Now, you can be charged with felony "terroristic threat". I guess I have committed felonies several times when I was a lot younger under this area of law.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
I have been a LEO for 25 years. I can tell you that the difference between being a felon and a non-felon can be a very thin line. The first thing told to us when criminal law was taught at the a academy was that we were ALL felons because filatio was a felony in our state at the time. And yes there were people convicted for that. There are now even more laws that can condemn a good man. Our founding fathers could have easily been convicted of treason but instead they are heroes. I think each case should be examined on its own merit.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
I have been a LEO for 25 years. I can tell you that the difference between being a felon and a non-felon can be a very thin line. The first thing told to us when criminal law was taught at the a academy was that we were ALL felons because filatio was a felony in our state at the time. And yes there were people convicted for that. There are now even more laws that can condemn a good man. Our founding fathers could have easily been convicted of treason but instead they are heroes. I think each case should be examined on its own merit.





Thanks brother for comenting. This is exactly right and I am glad that a LEO (it took me a while to figure this on out) said what I have been trying to say earler. Next the others will quote what the GLoT by-laws say so be prepared.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
Thank you. The term is just quicker to type when I'm on the cell phone. I agree with what your saying, and i know what they are going to say too. I am not trying to encourage anyone to disobey the Grand Lodges edict. And I understand that we must follow those edicts. But edicts can be changed and I'm hoping that I can give a good argument to help that.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
the others will quote what the GLoT by-laws say so be prepared.

No, Brother Varnell- I, for one, will not waste more time repeating what has already been explained to you more than once on these forums. I am fully in agreement with Bro. Cajun Tin Man's sentiments and voted against the resolution when presented last year. When I was a rookie cop in Houston back in '76, the mere possession of ANY amount of marijuana, even nothing more than "stems & seeds", was a felony. Now it is the lowest form of misdemeanor and I expect that someday soon it won't be considered a crime at all. As I have posted previously, the arguments you advance were made during the debate last year and rejected by the majority of the Brethren present then. It is what it is.

I intend no condescension when I state that you are extremely young and inexperienced in Masonry and have yet to earn the privilege of even attending Grand Lodge, much less speaking before the Brethren. Rather than fulminate against the things you perceive to be wrong with Masonry, you would be well advised to concentrate on your studies. As you progress you will learn much about why things are the way they are and what the proper procedure is to modify or change them. Someday, if found worthy by the Brethren of your Lodge, you may be given the opportunity to work to change things more to your liking. Until then your efforts would be more productive if applied to improving your knowledge in Masonry.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
Brother Bill is absolutely correct. The Grand Lodge in your area is the final Masonic Law for which you must follow. As you are on the path to becoming a Master Mason it is a time for reflection and learning. Masonry is not for everyone. Even if you are found worth to be a brother, Masonry its self might not be what you want and that is something that you need to reflect on. But Masonry is progressive and as you advance in the craft you will have an opportunity to help mold it. My arguments are made with full respect to Grand Lodge of Texas and to my fellow brethren. Like anyone I hope they give insight and are persuasive. Not to say that yours aren’t. As a Mason I do stand by my opinions but I submit to the authority of my Grand Lodge.
 
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jvarnell

Premium Member
Brother Bill is absolutely correct. The Grand Lodge in your area is the final Masonic Law for which you must follow. As you are on the path to becoming a Master Mason it is a time for reflection and learning. Masonry is not for everyone. Even if you are found worth to be a brother, Masonry its self might not be what you want and that is something that you need to reflect on. But Masonry is progressive and as you advance in the craft you will have an opportunity to help mold it. My arguments are made with full respect to Grand Lodge of Texas and to my fellow brethren. Like anyone I hope they give insight and are persuasive. Not to say that yours aren’t. As a Mason I do stand by my opinions but I submit to the authority of my Grand Lodge.

I beleive that puting the word felnoy in to a regulation has un intended consequences. Unintended consequences are usely bad. when "people" defines words they have in there head something that may or not be what you think it should be. To me it should be on an indivual bases and the judgment of men. If you lean on a word you can makew it mean anything. we have brains we need to use them.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I beleive that puting the word felnoy in to a regulation has un intended consequences. Unintended consequences are usely bad. when "people" defines words they have in there head something that may or not be what you think it should be. To me it should be on an indivual bases and the judgment of men. If you lean on a word you can makew it mean anything. we have brains we need to use them.

That argument was also made & rejected by the Grand West.
 
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