Jesus

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by zouzoum, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. zouzoum

    zouzoum Registered User

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    Was Jesus a normal man or the son of God ? (Question only for Christians)

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  2. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    Yes.


    Like so many questions with that require a predetermined response neither of these are completely correct. Ergo I have supplied a third response.
     
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  3. NY.Light

    NY.Light Registered User

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    The traditional understanding is that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine. He was of both natures.
     
  4. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    How about we are all sons of God he was just more in tune with our father.
     
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  5. zouzoum

    zouzoum Registered User

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    I agree with this answer.. but other religions say to be fully divine means u r a God so there is more than one God in this case in the same Christianity.

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  6. NY.Light

    NY.Light Registered User

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    From the Council of Chalcedon, 4th Ecumenical Council:

    "Following, then, the holy Fathers, we all unanimously teach that our Lord Jesus Christ is to us

    One and the same Son, the Self-same Perfect in Godhead, the Self-same Perfect in Manhood; truly God and truly Man; the Self-same of a rational soul and body; co-essential with the Father according to the Godhead, the Self-same co-essential with us according to the Manhood; like us in all things, sin apart; before the ages begotten of the Father as to the Godhead, but in the last days, the Self-same, for us and for our salvation (born) of Mary the Virgin Theotokos as to the Manhood; One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union, but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into One Person and One Hypostasis; not as though He were parted or divided into Two Persons, but One and the Self-same Son and Only-begotten God, Word, Lord, Jesus Christ; even as from the beginning the prophets have taught concerning Him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself hath taught us, and as the Symbol of the Fathers hath handed down to us."
     
  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This is my opinion also.
     
  8. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Based on my humble Biblical opinion....

    YHWH or Jesus, is the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father... of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor his name have been revealed to anyone at this time... YHWH, the Son, was brought forth into our physical world from the invisible spiritual realm of his Almighty Father... when God spoke the Word in the beginning and said "Let there be light" and there was light.(Gen 1:3).... and became the ONLY God physically formed for us to see and witness.

    In the Old Testament, we read the following Scripture..

    Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses (to be seen physically), saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Note: The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit without physical shape or form that never change.

    Later, the Son, was sent again into our physical world and made flesh to save us from our sins. He became known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

    JMHO...
     
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  9. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Historically, rather than theologically, the figure of Jesus is likely to be a composite of several, including that of his brother James the Just
     
  10. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Brethren:

    Just to continue the OP or topic... It is my Christian Biblical opinion that...

    Genesis 1 uses the word "Elohim" for God, but in Genesis 2:4 Scripture uses the word "YHWH" for God thy Maker. Elohim is a Plural Name and means The Judges. YHWH is a singular name and is the name of the LORD.

    The LORD is called YHWH in the Old and Jesus Christ in the New Testament. The LORD is the Only Begotten Son of the Invisible Spirit of God. He is the Image or Physical Incarnation of God. YHWH or Jesus is the Only God you will ever See.

    In Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead, Bodily. God is an invisible Spirit, the Spirit of Love. His Only Image is that of his Son. Jesus said, If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father.

    He existed BEFORE the World was. He was brought forth in the beginning.. Into our physical world.... when God spoke the Word and said... "LET THERE BE LIGHT"... And there there was light. Gen. 1:3

    The brightness of the glory of the Lord, the Son, provided the light in our physical world in the beginning (Alpha) and will also be the one to provide the light in the New Jerusalem to come (Omega).

    Rev. 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Jesus is NOT an Angel but also God himself. He was AGAIN sent into this world and Made Flesh to save us from our sins.

    Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    v5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? AND AGAIN, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    v1:6 AND AGAIN, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Why do we suppose the words "AND AGAIN" were used repeatedly and emphasized 2x in the texts?

    Let's continue reading, shall we...

    v1:10 And,Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; :and "the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    Oh I see..... the Son was brought forth (begotten) into this world the 1st time in the beginning (Gen 1:3).... then, He was AGAIN into this world and made flesh to save us form our sins...

    v1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Let’s give credit where credit is due!! I give mine to the Son... my Father and my God.

    Again, the above analogy is only based on my Christian Biblical opinion.
     
  11. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    That is a theological position rather than an etymological position.

    Eloha is a female word from the Sumerian "ilu" meaning both tall and gods. By adding the male plural ending "-im" it is reasonable to translate Elohim as "goddesses and gods"

    Since the E is actually Aleph and the "o" is imputed not written, Eloha can be written equally accurately as Alha or Allah
     
  12. John Schnitz

    John Schnitz Premium Member

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    John . 1. And 14 .In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, verse 14 and the Word was God. Also the word was made flesh and dwelled among us
     
  13. dalinkou

    dalinkou Premium Member

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    Do you have even one scholarly reference that supports this position?
     
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  14. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Here's how you reconcile the Story of the Beginning. The bringing forth of the "Word" (the Son) into this physical world using only the Scriptures .... My witnesses (3).

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

    The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Prov. 8:22

    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2

    The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2

    I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Prov 8:3

    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Gen, 1:3

    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

    When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Prov 8:24

    And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.Gen.1:4

    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.John 1:4

    Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Prov 8:25

    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5

    And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5
     
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  15. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Scholarly is a wonderful word - very flexible in its uses.

    "Only Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey have thoroughly attempted to prove Jesus’ historical existence in recent times." http://theconversation.com/weighing-up-the-evidence-for-the-historical-jesus-35319

    "Certain scholars, particularly in Europe, have recently made the case that while there are a number of plausible "Jesuses" that could have existed, there can be no certainty as to which Jesus was the historical Jesus,"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

    If you are really brave you can try the 7 volume rewrite of history by Fomenko (4 in English so far). Fomenko applies mathematics to the validation of history.

    http://www.amazon.com/History-Ficti...e=UTF8&qid=1433209445&sr=1-2&keywords=fomenko

    [​IMG]
     
  16. dalinkou

    dalinkou Premium Member

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    Except if you are doing legitimate research.

    Discount web pages and Wikipedia - that will not pass. Two of the books you mention appear to refute your point (??), and only the 4 volume set would even count as a resource, and only to the degree that you could present a thesis that the author was correct and Josephus & Tacitus were clearly wrong.

    You made a statement designed to draw responses inflamed with passion, yet like other statements you make, one is left to wonder why you bother.
     
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  17. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Based on the Scripture:

    I believe, Jesus, the Son, physically existed BEFORE the world was. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

    In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His crucifixion, Jesus prays to his Father:

    "And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." John 17:5

    Glory is Brightness, a Physical trait. Jesus is speaking of the Brightness of his Glory which He shared with the Father, Before the world was (Gen. 1:3). Before the world was can only be the 1st Day, since, the first World was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8

    If one believes that In the beginning God created the HeavenS (Plural) before the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.

    If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that He was brought forth into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed.

    Just my Biblical opinion, of course.
     
  18. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Here's my take on Genesis 1:1-5 based on my perspective...

    Gen.1:1 - is a Preface...The Story of the Beginning...

    Gen. 1:2 - narrates us the condition of the deep before the making of our physical world.

    Gen. 1:3 - The bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made.

    Gen. 1:4 - The division of light from darkness...The first work of old.

    Gen. 1:5 - The evening and the morning, the First Day

    Notice: Our physical world was actually formed only on the 2nd Day - Gen. 1:6-8...

    Of course, the above analogies are based only on my own Biblical understanding.
     
  19. Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776 Registered User

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    Not "traditional". Christian belief. Case closed.
     
  20. Seve

    Seve Registered User

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    Who was David's Lord in the OT?

    Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord (David’ Lord), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.


    In the New Testament, we read the following..
    .
    Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

    v42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

    v43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    v44 The LORD said unto my
    (David') Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

    v45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?


    v46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

    IF David's Lord in the Old Testament was YHWH.... then who was the other “LORD” who commanded YHWH to " Sit thou on his right hand, till he makes his enemies in hisfootstool?

    My Biblical Conclusion:

    YHWH is the Christ, the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father.... of whom No man hath seen at anytime nor his name have been revealed to anyone at this time.

    Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015

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