Non-Christian in Commandery?

Discussion in 'The York Rite' started by Mac, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Howdy! Quick question for you knowledgeable York Rite brothers:

    I know a brother needs to be Christian (or something to that effect, based on other threads I've read) to become a KT.

    What about for the Order of the Red Cross and the Order of Malta? Can you go through those and stop just shy of becoming a KT?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    To my knowledge, no. I have never watch a man just go through the first two degrees. The Order of Knight Masons confers something similar to the Order of the Red Cross, but I don't know of any man that has received the first two degrees.

    Order of Knight Masons do not require a profession of Christian faith, as we have many active Jewish brethren apart of the order.

    S&F,
    -Bro Vick
     
  3. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Actually, a Christian oath is required to be admitted in the Order of Malta, so the Order of the Red Cross would be the only one a non-Christian would want to join.
     
  4. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    I have never known a man just to get the Order of Red Cross, have you?
     
  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    No. You either take the Orders or you don't. Plenty of Companions stop at Council, though.
     
  6. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Thank you for the input, brothers!
     
  7. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    If I remember correctly from other posts, it is not a "belief" in Christianity that is required--but swearing to defend/uphold Christian values. Is that accurate? If that is the case, a non-Christian could join if desired...or is it overtly Christian in nature so that it would likely offend or be uncomfortable for a non-Christian?
     
  8. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Would a non-Christian be comfortable reciting the Nicene Creed?

    Could they Obligate themselves to it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  9. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    I guess an interesting comparison could be that Christian Brothers swear an oath relating to "Allah" and such as Shriners. The common explanation that I hear/read is that it is part of the experience and does not literally swear that you are a Muslim, but your oath is to your God (e.g. Krishna, Christian God, Semite God). It probably does come down to comfort level ultimately. When the Shrine was started, Islam was an interesting foreign religion to most Americans, so it was probably seen as somewhat benign when the oath had a reference to "Allah" (if it does).

    That being said, I know very little regarding both obligations, so I will wait for confirmation or rebuke by far more enlightened Brethren...
     
  10. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    There are Three Sacred books upon the altar in the Shrine, one of wich is the Bible. The Shrine like Masonry is not meant to dictate as to "who" your Supreme Being is or isn't... That is all that I will disclose about the A.A.O.N.M.S.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  11. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    Could a non-Christian Brother (say of Jewish faith) swear to defend Christendom with a Torah also upon the altar? (Or whatever the obligation entails.) Or must it be the Bible (with New Testament) and strictly Christian in nature?

    I ask not to be annoying (as I am Christian and this discussion doesn't pertain to me since I plan to go this route), but know many Brothers that only go SR because it is more open in regard to religious acceptance and their sentiment is that the KT is closed minded and strictly for Christians. I would like to square-them-away and provide Brothers with the opportunity for more Light (or the option of YR if they are interested after being Raised, but not Christian; or don't like the "religiously intolerant" path of further Light, which is the sentiment of several Christian Brothers I know).

    I also want to thank you Brother Stewart for mentioning the multiple Volumes of Sacred Law on the Altar. That has been one of my few hang-ups with joining the Shrine. I do love the environment and many family events though. It does seem more time-consuming than my cable tow will allow for currently, but it will be considered in the future.
     
  12. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Brother Graham, as mentioned earlier, there are many degrees within the York Rite, before the Chivalric Orders, that are open to everyone. They are rich and fulfilling, filled with new insight into your previous lessons. I highly recommend every Freemason experience the Royal Arch.

    It is up to the individual Companion to decide if his path lies within the Orders. They are "a Christian-oriented fraternal organization[SUP]1[/SUP]," make no mistake.




    [SUP]1[/SUP]The Grand Encampment of Knights Templar website.
     
  13. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    Being close minded and strictly for Christians are not related, you do realize this, don't you?
     
  14. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    Please don't get snippy with me. I'm just a messenger. As I said, I'm planning for this Light. This is a common mentality I've personally witnessed. I've advocated the Chapter and Council to non-Christians. My research has found that it brings the first three degrees full-circle. I'm not the one to convince. But before I am enlightened from experience, I can only share what I know to be true from Brothers (i.e. youz guyz!).

    So, if the answer is no...fine. I just want to be able to dispell the shadows regarding the Commandery and being a non-Christian. Is it conducive for a non-Christian to join? If so, how? Can an obligation be taken on another VSL? If you know non-Christian Brothers in the Commandery, what is their take and justification that may not be common knowledge to non-Christian Brothers? Does the Commandery even really want non-Christians to join?

    Feel free to PM me as this thread is clearly getting sensitive and some answers may not be best to just be posted. I can also give you my cell if you want to talk. Again, I am Christian and plan to go YR. This is not info for me to decide my future...I just want to share Light.
     
  15. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    When you were an EA you were asking questions along these lines regarding the York Rite and the Commandery. So sorry if my patience regarding these questions and your tone is getting curt. Lumping close minded values with Christians is offensive and any brother who accuses the Commandery of such either doesn't have the faintest idea of what the Commandery stands for or Commandery's role in Freemasonry, and makes an active choice not to know better.

    Maybe you will hopefully have a better understanding when you receive the orders.

    Yes, you need to have a faith in Christ, not Christ like virtues, otherwise the oaths and ceremonies would be uncomfortable at best.

    S&F,
    -Bro Vick
     
  16. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    I'm not seeing how you are reading into this as me calling Christians closed-minded. But I guess that's your interpretation. But if that's what you thought, it wasn't my intent. Nearly my entire Lodge is SR and Shriners and this is the kind of spiel I get from them. I can only defend something that I know little about so much. Hence, my questions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  17. Vikti

    Vikti Registered User

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    I have a friend who is polytheistic and Christianity is in his mix, what would he be told if he decided to go through the degrees and wanted to become a Knights Templar? He has no problem "upholding and defending the Christian faith" but he would not give up any other parts of his various faiths. Would this be a problem in most jurisdictions?
     
  18. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    You know, I've obviously got a problem communicating effectively here. Not sure what I did to piss in your Cheerios (except be an "EA" asking questions [as you so casually put it]). I seem to remember a Brother like yourself not so long ago doing the same thing. But if you take the time to read my posts out of context, couldn't you at least answer some of the questions? I'm not just throwing this crap out there for my health; but maybe you've got better things to do...aside from taking jabs at a new Brother that is trying to find ways to defend something that you obviously hold close to your heart. I must say, you're not coming across as the guy I imagined you were, but I guess that's the way it goes on the internet...
     
  19. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    I'm not sure why he would want to.

    No. It is a strictly Christian Order, and uses the New Testament.

    The Commandery wants Christian Masons to join. They want all Christian Masons to join. That is their motto, and I believe, their goal.
     
  20. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    That's not the only question to be answered. He is also asked if he believes that the Saviour died on the Cross for the remission of sins. I'm not sure how many non-Christians are comfortable answering yes to that.
     

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