Bro. Vincent
Registered User
... And the Dogon people?
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Who knows about the star system Siris?
- Thread starter Bro. Vincent
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Bro. Vincent
Registered User
You're right. They weren't the only people that knew about it but they aren't ancient. As a matter of fact they knew more about it than the more technically advanced scientist than the French astronomers that were studying them... Without modern technology. They were the ones that taught the world it was it was not only aAre you referring to their religion?
I don't know much about it but I think I know where you're going with this!
I think it's safe to say that they aren't the only ancient people with very detailed knowledge of the stars but there's is certainly very well documented.
one star system but a tri- star system with no modern technology. They say they are direct descendants of the Egyptians. Even today astronomers and scientist are still trying to figure out how they mapped the heavens.
I'm not going anywhere in particular just something I'm studying. I find it fascinating...
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dew_time
Registered User
I think I've read something about this. Perhaps they are the "aliens" people seem to point out in the writting in the pyramids...
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Bro. Vincent
Registered User
They were not built by aliens my brother. You've been watching too many movies lol. Just kidding. Seriously aliens
did not build anything in the Giza plateau... All divine human ingenuity!
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dew_time
Registered User
Lol.. movies and tv... the greatest education around. Egyptian history was my favorite subject in school but that was so long ago. I know aliens had nothing to do with their culture but I do beleove they wew an enlightened people.
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Bro. Vincent
Registered User
I could talk for hours regarding this subject. It is one of the most dynamic and most talked about and least understood cultures of the modern era. That history has been extremely distorted (for reasons I will get into here) and the artifacts and libraries ruined yet there are still reminders left behind to remind us of what is capable in the devine human spirit of man. Funny thing is it is older than most historians say and what we do know outwardly about that civilization is intresting because it was already the declining of the Pharonic Dynasties. No one has a clue of what was happening during it's zenith.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Astronomy stuff -
Sirius A is a bright star and therefore much younger than Sol. This makes it less likely to host a native technological species than Sol (us). Sirius B is a white dwarf. White dwarfs are formed by bright stars running out of hydrogen fuel and going nova or supernova. This means the Sirius system has been incinerated by at least one nova blast since it condensed out of its nebula. This further reduces its chances of hosting a native technological species. If aliens came from Sirius (a gigantic if) they were not native to that system.
There's a counteracting situation here. White dwarfs shine for an *extremely* long time. Far longer than the 8 billion year lifespan the Sun has from ignition to its red giant phase. Sol will likely end up a white dwarf after it completes its red phase. But during its red giant phase Earth will be incinerated, stripped of its atmosphere and maybe evaporated completely. Now let's postulate a species so advanced technologically it can move planets from interstellar space into a star system, terraform them and settle on them. Putting such a planet in orbit around a white dwarf gives you a system that lasts hundreds of billions of years. It might be worth doing if any species ever gets that level of capability. With the gigantic if that any species ever gains the ability to move a planet like that.
Now for the double counterbalance. As Sirius A is still bright it will go nova or supernova at least once and probably several times. It will have its own red giant phase that will incinerate any planets nearby. Any species able to move a planet will chose more stable systems to colonize. For a species to put a planet near either of these stars it would have to be able to move planets for a strategy that last millions not billions of years. That's an even higher level of capability and we don't even know if there are other species out there. And it's an even bigger if. We've gotten into so many layers of if there's no way.
My conclusion is if aliens visited the Dogon (highly unlikely) they did not come from Sirius. The Dogon ancestors did not understand the answer when they asked the aliens where they had come from so they remembered the brightest star in the sky. But what really happened is they were not visited by aliens rather it's a symbolic not literal story - a parable. I am not surprised that a parable about granting light to a tribe ends up using the brightest star in the sky.
Why do they think Sirius is a triple star? Random made up stories are right sometimes. Can knowledge come to humans by means other than telescopes? Probably but that delves into the mystical and in this particular post I address astronomy and odds and motivations not mystical knowledge.
It doesn't have to be random. Look up into the sky in the winter when Sirius is visible. It's part f a triangle of stars. Staying it's a triple system can be as simple as seeing that triangle of stars and not knowing they have very different distances.
Sirius A is a bright star and therefore much younger than Sol. This makes it less likely to host a native technological species than Sol (us). Sirius B is a white dwarf. White dwarfs are formed by bright stars running out of hydrogen fuel and going nova or supernova. This means the Sirius system has been incinerated by at least one nova blast since it condensed out of its nebula. This further reduces its chances of hosting a native technological species. If aliens came from Sirius (a gigantic if) they were not native to that system.
There's a counteracting situation here. White dwarfs shine for an *extremely* long time. Far longer than the 8 billion year lifespan the Sun has from ignition to its red giant phase. Sol will likely end up a white dwarf after it completes its red phase. But during its red giant phase Earth will be incinerated, stripped of its atmosphere and maybe evaporated completely. Now let's postulate a species so advanced technologically it can move planets from interstellar space into a star system, terraform them and settle on them. Putting such a planet in orbit around a white dwarf gives you a system that lasts hundreds of billions of years. It might be worth doing if any species ever gets that level of capability. With the gigantic if that any species ever gains the ability to move a planet like that.
Now for the double counterbalance. As Sirius A is still bright it will go nova or supernova at least once and probably several times. It will have its own red giant phase that will incinerate any planets nearby. Any species able to move a planet will chose more stable systems to colonize. For a species to put a planet near either of these stars it would have to be able to move planets for a strategy that last millions not billions of years. That's an even higher level of capability and we don't even know if there are other species out there. And it's an even bigger if. We've gotten into so many layers of if there's no way.
My conclusion is if aliens visited the Dogon (highly unlikely) they did not come from Sirius. The Dogon ancestors did not understand the answer when they asked the aliens where they had come from so they remembered the brightest star in the sky. But what really happened is they were not visited by aliens rather it's a symbolic not literal story - a parable. I am not surprised that a parable about granting light to a tribe ends up using the brightest star in the sky.
Why do they think Sirius is a triple star? Random made up stories are right sometimes. Can knowledge come to humans by means other than telescopes? Probably but that delves into the mystical and in this particular post I address astronomy and odds and motivations not mystical knowledge.
It doesn't have to be random. Look up into the sky in the winter when Sirius is visible. It's part f a triangle of stars. Staying it's a triple system can be as simple as seeing that triangle of stars and not knowing they have very different distances.
Bro. Vincent
Registered User
ahhh...but the interesting twist to the story of the Dogon is even if what you say is true, then please enlighten me on how the third star was found by the Dogon?
I find this most interesting though...
Certain researchers investigating the Dogon have reported that they seem to possess advanced astronomical knowledge, the nature and source of which have subsequently become embroiled in controversy. From 1931 to 1956 the French anthropologist Marcel Griaule studied the Dogon. This included field missions ranging from several days to two months in 1931, 1935, 1937 and 1938[SUP][15][/SUP] and then annually from 1946 until 1956.[SUP][16][/SUP] In late 1946 Griaule spent a consecutive thirty-three days in conversations with the Dogon wiseman Ogotemmêli, the source of much of Griaule and Dieterlen's future publications.[SUP][17][/SUP] They reported that the Dogon believe that the brightest star in the sky, Sirius (sigi tolo or 'star of the Sigui'[SUP][18][/SUP]), has two companion stars, pō tolo (the Digitaria star), and ęmmę ya tolo, (the female Sorghum star), respectively the first and second companions of Sirius A.[SUP][19][/SUP] Sirius, in the Dogon system, formed one of the foci for the orbit of a tiny star, the companionate Digitaria star. When Digitaria is closest to Sirius, that star brightens: when it is farthest from Sirius, it gives off a twinkling effect that suggests to the observer several stars. The orbit cycle takes 50 years.[SUP][20][/SUP] They also claimed that the Dogon appeared to know of the rings of Saturn, and the moons of Jupiter.[SUP][21][/SUP]
Griaule and Dieterlen were puzzled by this Sudanese star system, and prefaced their analysis with the following remark:-
The problem of knowing how, with no instruments at their disposal, men could know the movements and certain characteristics of virtually invisible stars has not been settled, nor even posed
Bro. Vincent
Registered User
That excerpt is from a wikipedia article, but it is on point. And the more I study these people and their initiation rites and practices the more intrigued I am...Again my fundamental question is how did they know...? Everyone knew Siris A, no big deal, but not everyone knew about B and no one had any idea that it was tri-nary star system until fairly recently. These people knew then and say the are direct decedents of the ancient Egyptians.
this story of the Dogon asking aliens where they come from and didn't know or understand the answer? Where are you getting your sources from? In the Dogon mythology they say that is the star system THEY come from and that is where their ancestors are and that they travel back and forth often which is exactly what the ancient Egyptians say they were doing in the scrolls "Coming Forth by Day" and grossly interpreted as the Egyptian book of the Dead.
this story of the Dogon asking aliens where they come from and didn't know or understand the answer? Where are you getting your sources from? In the Dogon mythology they say that is the star system THEY come from and that is where their ancestors are and that they travel back and forth often which is exactly what the ancient Egyptians say they were doing in the scrolls "Coming Forth by Day" and grossly interpreted as the Egyptian book of the Dead.
dfreybur
Premium Member
You're thinking of using a telescope to discover that Sirius is a trinary star system. I'm thinking that when I look up at Sirius I see three stars in a triangle. Very different but I bet it's a bear to get that across in translation to a very foreign language.
As to Dogon myth saying they come from Sirius, parables use stories to tell deep truths while the surface story is not required to be truth. Very few faiths teach that their stories are literally true so I do not make the assumption that they think that.
Bro. Vincent
Registered User
But that's just it. You cant see the third star even with a telescope, even today, but astrologist now know it's there because of the energy it emits...how could these people possibly know this?
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Aeelorty
Registered User
Crazy idea but maybe they just took guess and made things up and they just happened to be true. Can anyone name any other groups who made predictions about stars that are wrong? How much easier is it to recall a group that stands out more like the Dogon than a group that was wrong?
widows son
Premium Member
I'm on the fence about this subject. I don't believe there's any alien contact, but I do believe that they are much more advanced, and that their fables involve astronomical data, the bible is full of it, so there's nothing saying that the Dogon didn't know either.
Bro. Vincent have you read the Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple? He goes into quite some detail about this subject. If you haven't read it my brother I suggest you do
Bro. Vincent have you read the Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple? He goes into quite some detail about this subject. If you haven't read it my brother I suggest you do
Bro. Vincent
Registered User
I'm on the fence about this subject. I don't believe there's any alien contact, but I do believe that they are much more advanced, and that their fables involve astronomical data, the bible is full of it, so there's nothing saying that the Dogon didn't know either.
Bro. Vincent have you read the Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple? He goes into quite some detail about this subject. If you haven't read it my brother I suggest you do
Thank you brother Widow I think I will check it out. Unfortunately the nerd in me... Has me reading three books at once at the moment but I'll put one that on my list. The dogon are really an interesting people during our life time that we should honor and study. But thats just me...
But thank you for the heads up I will Check it out and get back to once I read it. I will read it trust me... Might take a while to get to it but I'll read it.
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Bro. Vincent
Registered User
The problem about the theory about them guessing about it, is there were other high cultures before them and after that had no access to that knowledge yet, had the same things in their own folklore. Wholistic cultures, the Mayans, the Dogon, the khemits, the summarians, the ancient ethiopians, the Nubians, the Dravidians, the moors, the Zulu, the north american native american, the south american native american, the Grimaldi, so on and so on.... could all these groups be guessing or mislead?
Hmmmmmm.... I'm jus saying....
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Bro. Vincent
Registered User
To learn is to ask a question. When the answer doesn't make sense to you then you keep searching.
IMO that's masonry is all about finding the answers and secrets of the Devine man, once found imploring those answers to make a more perfect man.
This why masonry is a life long journey.
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IMO that's masonry is all about finding the answers and secrets of the Devine man, once found imploring those answers to make a more perfect man.
This why masonry is a life long journey.
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widows son
Premium Member
"and that their fables involve astronomical data"
"
Interesting what data is that?"
- they (The Dogon) predicted according to Robert Temple that Sirius was a binary star system. Of course we knew this in the early 1900's but we needed telescopes to figure it out where they didn't. They also didn't have much contact with outsiders so their legends were hardly corrupted by time and people.
Like I said before, the bible is full of astronomical data and information so there's nothing saying that the Dogon didn't have similar information too.
"
Interesting what data is that?"
- they (The Dogon) predicted according to Robert Temple that Sirius was a binary star system. Of course we knew this in the early 1900's but we needed telescopes to figure it out where they didn't. They also didn't have much contact with outsiders so their legends were hardly corrupted by time and people.
Like I said before, the bible is full of astronomical data and information so there's nothing saying that the Dogon didn't have similar information too.