Widows Sons

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Sk3tchNinja, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Sk3tchNinja

    Sk3tchNinja Registered User

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    I am in the process of interviewing this riding group of masons to see if we're a good fit for each other prior to petitioning.

    I was wondering if anyone here is a part of it and what they feel about it.

    How has the group affected you as a rider?

    How has it affected you as a mason?

    How much time do you dedicate to your chapter?

    If a lot of us are part of it, should a subsection be added for this masonic group too?

    I apologize if this topic has already been covered. I couldn't find anything covering the Widows Sons within the forum. Thank you all for your insight!
     
  2. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I would recommend you spend a season riding with them as a guest/hanger on to make sure you fit that chaper's culture and you won't be embarrassed by them.
     
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  3. Sk3tchNinja

    Sk3tchNinja Registered User

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    Thank you for your input. As stated in my original post, that's exactly what I am doing. I doubt it will take an entire season of riding to figure out its not meant to be, though.

    You worded your statement in an interesting fashion. You used the word "embarrassed", why is that? Have you any experience riding with them? Perhaps as a innocent onlooker at a public ride?
     
  4. Bro. Allen

    Bro. Allen Registered User

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    I know that this doesn't apply to you, but FYI...the Widow's Sons are banned/clandestine in Texas. I'm not saying that this is good or bad, and I'm not trying to start anything on your thread. Like I said, FYI. There's already a thread or two regarding the situation in Texas.
     
  5. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    In any situation there are two interesting viewpoints to consider. There is Reality, and there is the Perception of Reality. I have absolutely no idea what the Reality is concerning the Widows Sons. I do however know how they are Perceived. They are perceived by some as lacking respect; lacking respect for women, and lacking respect for authority. I have no idea if this is actually true. Whether or not it is actually true is not my concern. My concern is how am I perceived. And a part of how I am perceived is based on the behavior of those I associate with.

    Rectitude does not mean getting as close to the line of dis-respectable behavior as you can and dropping a plumb line to prove that you have not actually crossed it. If you have to drop the plumb line, you have already lost.
     
  6. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Your original post said you were "interviewing" them, thus the caution to do more.

    They were not allowed to organize in Utah in 2008, as they had a logo with a woman (a widow) posed in what was deemed a lascivious manner, they had a forum section named MILF, they required members to wear their colours to Masonic funerals.

    Another group has the reputation of driving far too fast while wearing colors with Masonic devices on them (there is a reason I do not use emblems!). They also brought some grief on themselves in a FB post showing a member making a rude gesture while wearing Masonic devices.
     
  7. Sk3tchNinja

    Sk3tchNinja Registered User

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    Very enlightening information; thank you all. As of right now, they are a recognized group here in NJ. The chapter I am dealing with does a tremendous amount of charity work and fundraisers for many different causes. Those reasons coupled with their passion for riding were the motivating factors in which I cared to join.

    After speaking with the "Captain" of the chapter, he explained how they hold their masonic reputation high, and that they respect all laws, be it on the road or not. He seemed very concerned for the image his chapter and wishes to maintain the positive view his chapter has earned.

    I asked my local lodge brother's for their opinion on the group and they had nothing negative to say.

    Please keep your comments coming. They are appreciated.
     
  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Note, 1% do charity as well.

    As for the logo, one of the reasons for the Utah declination, see http://www.widowssonsnj.com/, scrolling to the bottom. I fail to see how that portrays a positive image for the Fraternity to the world.

    Note, I ride and am a member of the American Legion Riders.
     
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  9. Sk3tchNinja

    Sk3tchNinja Registered User

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    Thank you again, Brother Glen. It is easy to see how the image linked above could be a concern for some.
     
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  10. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    You are lucky you are in NJ where there is no edict against the WS. I had this conversission with others on this forum but some only look at the 1 to 2% of the WS patches to discurage anyone for riding with them. I meet three group of WS in tha past and they are good guy and don't ware the patch these guys on the fourm point too. The always say join the FMRC. I have only found one really active chapter in Texas near Houston. They were abunch of good guys but it is 5 hours away. Good luck asking these guy about the WS they will never change there mind. I say go with a MC or RC of Masons that has a active chapter near you like you did when you picked a lodge. I joined the http://www.freemasonsrc.com/ but no one active in my area. The WS had a group near me in Texas before the Texas 2007 edict. I don't think there is any chance of getting the edict removed because they want us to start wareing suits again and not just bussiness casual to stated meeting. If I sound bitter I maybe.....and going away from this converstion dissatifyed...
     
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  11. Sk3tchNinja

    Sk3tchNinja Registered User

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    @jvarnell, I take everything on this and other threads with a grain of salt. Clearly this topic requires a spoonful. I appreciate your unbiased opinion as well.

    The chapter I'm considering is the most active in the state and is conveniently located a few miles away from my blue lodge.

    Thanks for all your input and info, Brother!
     
  12. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Don't get the connection: what does wearing a suit to a meeting have to do with approving the Widows Sons?
     
  13. Joshua71

    Joshua71 Grand Standard Bearer GL of Alberta, PM Lodge #195 Premium Member

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    Brotherly love, relief and truth. The three principal tenants that apply to all Masons, Widows Sons or not. I'm very proud to be a Mason and associated with my brethren. I've recently joined the WS as well and as it turned out, most of them I already knew. My town has three lodges in it and we all visit each other's lodges regularly. I find it unfortunate that anyone would look at any legitimate Masonic organization with any view of a negative connotation. Once I joined the WS here in town, I recognized many of the brothers from lodge and made friends with a few I had not met yet. Our lodge goes dark for July and August which happens to coincide with the best riding months up here. I think it's fantastic I can get together with my brothers in the WS on organized rides to have fun and in many cases to raise money for worthy causes during these months. I don't know what caused someone to think that there was any embarrassing behaviour by any WS, however if a man or men are true and lawful brothers or brethren and the square is the guide of their Masonic conduct; then becoming a member of the Widows Sons should have no more bearing on how they are viewed and perceived than that of becoming a Mason in the first place. This is all designed to help make good men become better men and I would hope that we all view one another with open hearts, arms and minds. As Masons we owe it to ourselves and our fellow brethren to always put our best foot forward and to always strive to maintain a just and upright manner of conduct.

    Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again!
     
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  14. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    For some reason the same people that are now pushing for a suit to be proper attire think that leather vests and patches are not becoming to a Mason and use a patch that is used less than one percent in the WS as an excuse to stop them from being approved. I have 8 suits 2 tuxes and don't ware them unless I really have to. It is not the external but the internal. I would rather ware my leather vest with my apron.
     
  15. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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  16. NY.Light.II

    NY.Light.II Registered User

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    I am not yet a Mason, so please understanding the following in that light. The external should be a reflection of the internal. Whether that is personal attire or invoking the name of an laudable organization, the external in both cases, I think, should reflect the internal nobility. By extension, dressing "up" to reflect that integrity, or not using certain derogatory symbols in connection with the name of an honorable society are not, IMHO, strenuous requests. To tie this back in with the above responses, I think the WS MC should be careful in both their conduct and perception. It is not how many times a symbol is used, it is that the symbol is used at all that seems to be the central issue. The WSMC should perhaps more cognizant of this, and those who oppose the symbol and/or the group should perhaps be less legalistic. There is a common ground here.
     
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  17. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I push for a suit in Lodge. I also ride with a vest and patch. So, it would not be the "same people."
     
  18. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    As noted previously, the organization maintained a public website with a "MILF" section. I think it fair to say that reflects adversely on the organization and masonry has a whole. The emblem then widely used and still used by some chapters was viewed as inappropriate. That was the reasoning in Utah. It had nothing to do with vests or just patches. I note that I ride and wear patches.
     
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  19. Joshua71

    Joshua71 Grand Standard Bearer GL of Alberta, PM Lodge #195 Premium Member

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    Thanks for the insight Brother Glen! I've only just recently joined the WS and our chapter does not, nor has ever used the emblem to which you're referring, nor has a "MILF" section lol. I agree that particular emblem you referred to is unbecoming, however what I can comment on is the fact that all the WS that I have met in person are just and upright men. The conduct themselves Masonically in their personal and professional walks of life. The emblem that I see most commonly is the use of the All Seeing Eye which I don't feel should offend anyone really.

    Sorry that you were left with a bad feeling based on what you'd observed brother. I certainly feel that is not the case organization wide though.

    I hope you're able to observe better behaviour from the rest of the WS you may meet in the future and hopefully change the connotations you've been left with. Should we ever meet and cross paths, I would enjoy riding with you as I would all my brethren.

    Safe travels Brother!
     

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  20. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    For those that aren't familiar with this, one of the best overviews of The Widows Sons was recorded and broadcast in July of 2009. It contains (what I think is) a good over view of what it means to be a biker and a great interview with Brother Ted Hogan, who at the time was the president of the 3-5-7 Brotherhood Chapter of the Widows Sons in Chicago. Perhaps those interested in this topic will want to give it a listen.
    http://xoriente.com/?m=200907
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015

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