GETTING HEALED

[Ripcord22A]

But how many brothers have any idea about regularity issues no matter that the obligations say to not cross the regularity boundary. I can easily imagine a Brother active at the local level moving to a new town and applying for affiliation in his new town having no idea they aren't regular. Clandestine jurisdictions are happy to take members from regular jurisdictions and most of their members don't know.

I mean i guess. But i was told and have seen it in a couple different jurisdictions where a brother is moving and is told to go to the secretary and get a list of lodges in ur new area. Or google GL of XX. Flat out with NO exceptions on our side, the Legitmate GL in any given state is GL of State name. i know PHA has a few exceptions but we dont. The only variation on our branch of the family tree is AF&AM v. F&AM and the couple others out there. Even PHA knows that if ur in the states and its not F&AM its not legit

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[Warrior1256]

No some jurisdictions have a "healing" ceremony.

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Now I see. Thanks Brother.

 

[Bloke]

But how many brothers have any idea about regularity issues no matter that the obligations say to not cross the regularity boundary. I can easily imagine a Brother active at the local level moving to a new town and applying for affiliation in his new town having no idea they aren't regular. Clandestine jurisdictions are happy to take members from regular jurisdictions and most of their members don't know.

If they do not know, then their Instructors are failing them. It is each Brother's responsibility to ensure his is visiting, joining or admitting regular bodies. Yes, mistakes can be made, but let's not forget we were taught to be cautious.

 

[mrpierce17]

If they do not know, then their Instructors are failing them. It is each Brother's responsibility to ensure his is visiting, joining or admitting regular bodies. Yes, mistakes can be made, but let's not forget we were taught to be cautious.

If a gentleman joins a clandestine lodge to begin with the instructors are going to teach them that they are the legitimate body witch is basically flat out misleading them from the start

 

[Bloke]

If a gentleman joins a clandestine lodge to begin with the instructors are going to teach them that they are the legitimate body witch is basically flat out misleading them from the start

Sure, but weren't we talking the other way, a regular brother joining a irregular body ?

 

[mrpierce17]

Sure, but weren't we talking the other way, a regular brother joining a irregular body ?

I think in the case of going from regular to irregular most brothers who chose to where suspended for whatever reason and go irregular out of spite , and those irregular lodges are the only places they can go and attend lodge only to find that the grass is not always greener on the other side but I totally agree with you if a brother comes into a regular lodge his instructors should inform him of the difference between the regular bodies and the irregular ones but that responsibility doesn't fall solely on the instructor its up to the individual to take it upon himself to become knowledgeable in the two you can only lead a person so far all we can do is leave a li/G\ht on and hope they find a way back home

 

[Ripcord22A]

all we can do is leave a li/G\ht on and hope they find a way back home

I disagree, as I said above if a brother knowingly and willingly joins a clandestine jurisdiction out light gets shut off, never for them to return....imho

 

[mrpierce17]

I disagree, as I said above if a brother knowingly and willingly joins a clandestine jurisdiction out light gets shut off, never for them to return....imho

Then I take it you don't practice forgiveness as Mason's we learn to whisper wise counsel in a brother,s ear and help him realize the error in his ways as upright and moral men we should learn to be tolerant even of those we would consider to be ignorant

 

[Ripcord22A]

Then I take it you don't practice forgiveness as Mason's we learn to whisper wise counsel in a brother,s ear and help him realize the error in his ways as upright and moral men we should learn to be tolerant even of those we would consider to be ignorant

.
I practice all of that, however that man broke his obligation, plain and simple end of discussion. there is ZERO reason for a man in good standing to knowingly and willingly break his obligation!

 

[Warrior1256]

I disagree, as I said above if a brother knowingly and willingly joins a clandestine jurisdiction out light gets shut off, never for them to return....imho

.
I practice all of that, however that man broke his obligation, plain and simple end of discussion. there is ZERO reason for a man in good standing to knowingly and willingly break his obligation!

Totally agree!

 

[dfreybur]

But then i was thinking...in both my jurisdictions there is a line about going this way as all fellows habe gone this way before....

This leads me to wonder what Initiation is about. The answer to me is it is about a lot more than one thing.

Shared experience of degrees that vary slightly jurisdiction to jurisdiction but are recognizable as "the same" world wide - In this sense since clandestine jurisdictions use printed ritual books they put their candidates through "the same" Initiation. These guys actually have gone this way before.

The most generous version of healing I've read about is relearning the proficiency/catechism. If it's very similar the lodge might be generous about granting completion status. I think of this in terms of the proficiencies I have learned. If I were to deliver my California one in a Texas lodge ya'll would wonder where the second half of the first one went. Not a part of the California proficiency. Then I'd get to my third and you'd wonder why I reported the whole second section in addition to the Texas version. Not a part of the Texas proficiency. In the end the amount would balance out and it would be clear I'd gone through degrees close enough. Maybe insist on learning the local version, maybe not. Depends on the generosity of the Brothers present.

Adoption into a specific global family - When I first read the word "healing" in Masonic history books I figured that since clandestine jurisdictions use similar ritual that healing might be about changing "family trees". Adoption into our tree leaving theirs.

Internal qualification - What candidate ever knows they have petitioned a clandestine lodge. What candidate has any idea of such distinctions. Every candidate I know sincerely put their heart on the line during their obligations. Whatever it's about it can't be about what happened in the heart of the candidate during his degrees.

The longer I ponder the topic the more I like it is like national citizenship. Some are born others chose. Yet others have a national border pass over them and it changes in ways outside of their ken.

 

[MRichard]

.
I practice all of that, however that man broke his obligation, plain and simple end of discussion. there is ZERO reason for a man in good standing to knowingly and willingly break his obligation!

Generally, they would have demitted or been suspended or expelled if they joined a clandestine lodge.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

.
I practice all of that, however that man broke his obligation, plain and simple end of discussion. there is ZERO reason for a man in good standing to knowingly and willingly break his obligation!

Good stuff right there.

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[Ripcord22A]

Generally, they would have demitted or been suspended or expelled if they joined a clandestine lodge.

A brother with a demit is still a brother! a suspended brother is still a brother as his suspension will probably be lifted at some point in the future. An expelled brother is well no longer a brother so therefor who cares what he does.

As @Bloke said above, we are regular masons are taught to be cautious when interacting with or accepting men in to our lodges who claim to be Masons and also when seeking admission in to a lodge. Like I said if its not ZZ lodge #AA of the MWGLoXX or MWPHGLoXX(or the few exceptions such as Stringer) every Regular Mason should know that that lodge is not a recognized lodge. So therefor is Brother moves to a new area and for some reason there isn't a regular lodge in his area but there is a clandestine one and he says screw it ill just go there then he is wrong, he has broke his obligation and he is no longer a brother in my eyes.

Now for a Man that is looking to join and googles "masonic lodge in XX town" and he finds one that is clandestine, he has no clue. That man goes through the degrees, he moves and finds a lodge in his home town he comes and tries to gain admittance and discovers that his home lodge is bogus, no big deal. get to know him, offer him a petition and I would even suggest to the Lodge that we just charge the man the fee for affilitation, but still make him take the degrees in our lodge in front of our brethren, especially the Obligations!

 

[MRichard]

A brother with a demit is still a brother! a suspended brother is still a brother as his suspension will probably be lifted at some point in the future. An expelled brother is well no longer a brother so therefor who cares what he does.

As @Bloke said above, we are regular masons are taught to be cautious when interacting with or accepting men in to our lodges who claim to be Masons and also when seeking admission in to a lodge. Like I said if its not ZZ lodge #AA of the MWGLoXX or MWPHGLoXX(or the few exceptions such as Stringer) every Regular Mason should know that that lodge is not a recognized lodge. So therefor is Brother moves to a new area and for some reason there isn't a regular lodge in his area but there is a clandestine one and he says screw it ill just go there then he is wrong, he has broke his obligation and he is no longer a brother in my eyes.

Now for a Man that is looking to join and googles "masonic lodge in XX town" and he finds one that is clandestine, he has no clue. That man goes through the degrees, he moves and finds a lodge in his home town he comes and tries to gain admittance and discovers that his home lodge is bogus, no big deal. get to know him, offer him a petition and I would even suggest to the Lodge that we just charge the man the fee for affilitation, but still make him take the degrees in our lodge in front of our brethren, especially the Obligations!

If he demits or renounces his membership in his grand lodge to join another grand lodge, he ceases to be a brother. Now if he demits from his lodge, then he is still a brother. Might be homeless if that was the only lodge he belonged to which is why it is not a good idea to do that.

Maybe renouncing your membership is not the same as a demit. I thought it was more than one thing.

 

[Glen Cook]

If he demits or renounces his membership in his grand lodge to join another grand lodge, he ceases to be a brother. Now if he demits from his lodge, then he is still a brother. Might be homeless if that was the only lodge he belonged to which is why it is not a good idea to do that.

Maybe renouncing your membership is not the same as a demit. I thought it was more than one thing.

Correct in the jurisdictions of which I'm aware.

 

[Bill Lins]

Maybe renouncing your membership is not the same as a demit.

It is definitely not the same. A demit means leaving your Lodge, not the Fraternity. Renouncing your membership is leaving the Fraternity. If you demit from your only Lodge, you become an "unaffiliated Mason"- your rights are restricted somewhat, but you are still a Mason.

 

[mrpierce17]

It is definitely not the same. A demit means leaving your Lodge, not the Fraternity. Renouncing your membership is leaving the Fraternity. If you demit from your only Lodge, you become an "unaffiliated Mason"- your rights are restricted somewhat, but you are still a Mason.

Once a mason always a mason in most rituals it says clandestine made Mason's...wonder why they use the word mason if one is not such

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Once a mason always a mason in most rituals it says clandestine made Mason's...wonder why they use the word mason if one is not such

That what's I've always said. I guess your only a brother mason if you are in good Financial standings.

 

[Bloke]

That what's I've always said. I guess your only a brother mason if you are in good Financial standings.

The other way to look at this is in not staying financial, does that somehow release you from the promises you've made? I think not. Any Bro who keeps his obligation i still regard as being my brother