Grand Lodge of Belgium suspends relations with Grand Lodge of Georgia (USA)

[MRichard]

Discrimination is discrimination brother. There's no difference. If there was a difference then what's going on in the GL of GA and TN wouldn't matter.

It matters cause they put it in writing and expelled a gay couple in TN. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't know about it.

 

[MRichard]

Well given the fact that freemasonry isn't suppose to discriminate against a man for his religious view as long as he believes in a Supreme being I would say yes. That's PHA and GL. Are you aware of any PHA GL that doesn't allow Muslim brothers ? Please share so I can make a phone call ?

Make the call anyway. Search for the truth.

 

[Bloke]

Why aren't GLS pulling charters from subordinate lodges that discriminate ? Isn't that unmasonic conduct. You would think with what freemasonry stands for, GLS would want go preserve our innocent craft

I think the less GLs interfere with lodges, the better.

Each lodge should be able to regulate itself according to the Const. and landmarks. No lodge should be compelled to take a candidate. There is no rule that all petitioners should be accepted. Trying to prove discrimination on race is tricky, and on one level, all are discriminated against, male, over 18 (or21), not an atheist etc... I would NEVER propose a candidate who I thought would be blackballed. If a lodge would not take a worthy candidate because of the colour of his skin, I would keep searching until I found a lodge which would. Fortunately, I am not a member of a lodge like that, nor do I know one in our Const.

Here is the criteria I use, once all the standard stuff is ticked, the question comes "is this a guy you would want to be at a dinner party with ? is this a guy you would like to spend a weekend with ?" At the end of the day, lodges are social places and need to be built with that in mind breeding out unfavourble characteristics (racism being one) and creating a body of men who mutually support and improve each other. That's not about rules. That's about creating culture.

 

[MRichard]

Now are there possibly some subordinate lodges that are predominantly Christian and shun the Islamic faith... sure thing, but are they operating on how the GL wants things to be ran.... no

Well, isn't that discrimination per se?

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Make the call anyway. Search for the truth.

There is no need to make the call unless you can give the subordinate Lodge name or GL in which you are referring to. You stated "that you heard PHA doesn't accept Muslim's" I informed you that I attended a raising of a Muslim brother. You then stated that I am speaking for PHA as a whole. I then advised you yes because a qualification to being a freemason is believing in a Supreme being. Doesn't ask which. That's not just PHA, that should be any regular lodge or GL for that matter.

 

[Bloke]

It matters cause they put it in writing and expelled a gay couple in TN. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't know about it.

Interesting that. You wonder what they were thinking creating that evidentiary document. On one level, it is good they did that because it brought the issue out. Does that make Tenn GL better than those who do this surreptitiously? Perhaps it does..

 

[MRichard]

There is no need to make the call unless you can give the subordinate Lodge name or GL in which you are referring to. You stated "that you heard PHA doesn't accept Muslim's" I informed you that I attended a raising of a Muslim brother. You then stated that I am speaking for PHA as a whole. I then advised you that it didn't matter what religion a man was as long as he believed in a Supreme being. That should be any regular lodge or GL for that matter.

Frankly, you already confirmed what I heard. I had it mixed up but you corrected me. Thanks.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Well, isn't that discrimination per se?

Yes it is, did I not state that I am speaking on all loges that allow bigotry. Not to mention, this is the first time I've heard of PHA not allowing Muslim's in. And again, I said shun, ( meaning not in favor of) but would still accept. You read it online so it must be true right.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

I think the less GLs interfere with lodges, the better.

Each lodge should be able to regulate itself according to the Const. and landmarks. No lodge should be compelled to take a candidate. There is no rule that all petitioners should be accepted. Trying to prove discrimination on race is tricky, and on one level, all are discriminated against, male, over 18 (or21), not an atheist etc... I would NEVER propose a candidate who I thought would be blackballed. If a lodge would not take a worthy candidate because of the colour of his skin, I would keep searching until I found a lodge which would. Fortunately, I am not a member of a lodge like that, nor do I know one in our Const.

Here is the criteria I use, once all the standard stuff is ticked, the question comes "is this a guy you would want to be at a dinner party with ? is this a guy you would like to spend a weekend with ?" At the end of the day, lodges are social places and need to be built with that in mind breeding out unfavourble characteristics (racism being one) and creating a body of men who mutually support and improve each other. That's not about rules. That's about creating culture.

Sure. But on the same token, if their not policing themselves in regards to discrimination, who is suppose to regulate them ?

 

[MRichard]

Yes it is, did I not state that I am speaking on all loges that allow bigotry. Not to mention, this is the first time I've heard of PHA not allowing Muslim's in. And again, I said shun, ( meaning not in favor of) but would still accept. You read it online so it must be true right.

Shun means to reject. You are backtracking now.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Shun means to reject. You are backtracking now.

Not back tracking, wrong choice of word. My apology. That's why I used my own interpretation of the word. At the time couldn't think of the right word to use. In other words, Some may not be in favor of the Islamic faith or any faith that is not of their own, but they would still allow them to join. I guess one could argue discrimination for the sole purpose of not welcoming with open arms, I don't know how well that would go for them for the simple fact they still allowed them to join. And again I've never heard of this happening in any PHA GL or subordinate lodge, so this is just my speculation on this matter.

 

[Classical]

Bloke,

You're hitting on all cylinders tonight! Well done, sir.

 

[JJones]

@Bloke

You saved me a lot of typing tonight, took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Bloke]

Thanks Classical and JJones

Sure. But on the same token, if their not policing themselves in regards to discrimination, who is suppose to regulate them ?

Is a huge part of Freemasonry to train a man to self regulate? These brothers need to look into their own hearts and realise they are not acting on the level. Calling them names will not move them to do that, reason might. Experience and looking at their ashlar surely will if they only have the lightest touch of the Craft...

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Thanks Classical and JJones



Is a huge part of Freemasonry to train a man to self regulate? These brothers need to look into their own hearts and realise they are not acting on the level. Calling them names will not move them to do that, reason might. Experience and looking at their ashlar surely will if they only have the lightest touch of the Craft...

I agree. Freemasonry educates on how to build the inner man. "When you know better you do better" sounds to me like some brothers need to RE learn and apply the working tools .

 

[Bloke]

I agree. Freemasonry educates on how to build the inner man. "When you know better you do better" sounds to me like some brothers need to RE learn and apply the working tools .

I'm still trying to learn (apply) them - I haven't even got to the "RE lean" bit yet and expect (and hope) I never will

 

[Brother_Steve]

Decisions have consequences !

I see that you are PHA so I will ask you this question. How do you feel that it took this kind of discrimination to get a reaction from other Grand Lodges?

Racism practiced at the ballot box is okay so long as it is not written down. Does this bother you at all that one form of discrimination has more merit than another?