Grand Lodge of Belgium suspends relations with Grand Lodge of Georgia (USA)

[MRichard]

A while ago a lodge let in men of color, wasn't the GL of GA thinking about pulling their charter. Wasn't there emails exchanged? It was some how written, wasn't it about to go to court?

Golden Gate Lodge or something like that. Don't remember what happened cause I was not a freemason then.

 

[JJones]

It doesn't have to be "written". It's called an "unwritten" rule. Actions speak louder than words. It's not written due to the fear of law suits. Look at how many brothers have petitioned or attempted to petition and was turned away. GA is coming along slowly, TN not so much

Lots of petitioners probably should be turned away anyhow, regardless or race, or orientation.

Anyhow, if someone petitions your lodge that you feel won't be a good fit for the lodge or its brethren then you have a right to turn them away. Should a man be turned away just for being black? No, but he probably won't want to associate with a bunch of racists anyhow, would he?

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Yes, they threatend to pull the charter accusing them of violating an ancient landmark.

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[alterian]

Lots of petitioners probably should be turned away anyhow, regardless or race, or orientation.

Anyhow, if someone petitions your lodge that you feel won't be a good fit for the lodge or its brethren then you have a right to turn them away. Should a man be turned away just for being black? No, but he probably won't want to associate with a bunch of racists anyhow, would he?

Well, for that matter then should masonry associate with racist.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

It makes a big difference. It is very simple to prove discrimination when they put it in writing? Much more difficult when it is not.

Yes it is harder to prove but easier to get away with if not written. For example : say my lodge doesn't won't a Hispanic man to join our Lodge, everytime a Hispanic man tries to join he would receive a black ball. Although nothing in our constitution prohibits a Hispanic man from joining, the Lodge and GL has ways of keeping people out.

 

[MRichard]

Yes it is harder to prove but easier to get away with if not written. For example : say my lodge doesn't won't a Hispanic man to join our Lodge, everytime a Hispanic man tries to join he would receive a black ball. Although nothing in our constitution prohibits a Hispanic man from joining, the Lodge and GL has ways of keeping people out.

You preaching to the choir. But I must point out that individuals cast black cubes, not lodges or grand lodges.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Lots of petitioners probably should be turned away anyhow, regardless or race, or orientation.

Anyhow, if someone petitions your lodge that you feel won't be a good fit for the lodge or its brethren then you have a right to turn them away. Should a man be turned away just for being black? No, but he probably won't want to associate with a bunch of racists anyhow, would he?

That's the whole problem within freemasonry. Go "With your own kind where you will feel welcome." Why would you want to associate yourself with a bunch of racists ? The real question is Why would a racist want to be a freemason where we accept good men of all colors and creeds.

 

[MRichard]

That's the whole problem within freemasonry. Go "With your own kind where you will feel welcome." Why would you want to associate yourself with a bunch of racists ? The real question is Why would a racist want to be a freemason where we accept good men of all colors and creeds.

That's quite the assumption. In many places, men of color just starting coming in the last decade or so depending on where you live. The Grand Lodge of Alabama just initiated the first Black man in January 2016. Think about that for a second.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Why aren't GLS pulling charters from subordinate lodges that discriminate ? Isn't that unmasonic conduct. You would think with what freemasonry stands for, GLS would want go preserve our innocent craft.

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[Dontrell Stroman]

You preaching to the choir. But I must point out that individuals cast black cubes, not lodges or grand lodges.

I agree. I say lodges in regards to subordinate lodges that operate in bigotry as a whole. Of course not every subordinate Lodge that falls under the GL of TN or GA are bigots. I say GLS for not doing anything to stop it. I'm a firm believer in "if you see something wrong and if in your power make to a change you either don't do it or ignore the problem then your just as guilty as the one doing it."

 

[MRichard]

Why aren't GLS pulling charters from subordinate lodges that discriminate ? Isn't that unmasonic conduct. You would think with what freemasonry stands for, GLS would want go preserve our innocent craft.

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It's simple. You can't prove it. Furthermore, individuals cast black cubes, not lodges or grand lodges. Second time I stated that. You can't discuss how you voted.

Frankly, I don't know why these grand lodges decided to put the discriminatory practices in writing. It wasn't very smart in my opinion.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

That's quite the assumption. In many places, men of color just starting coming in the last decade or so depending on where you live. The Grand Lodge of Alabama just initiated the first Black man in January 2016. Think about that for a second.

Exactly. So what does that tell you ? Times are changing for some, but not for all. I'm addressing GLS that refuse and continue to allow racism in a organization that contradicts racism.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

It's simple. You can't prove it. Furthermore, individuals cast black cubes, not lodges or grand lodges. Second time I stated that. You can't discuss how you voted.

Frankly, I don't know why these grand lodges decided to put the discriminatory practices in writing. It wasn't very smart in my opinion.

Why can't you prove it ? How does the government prove that an employer has discriminated against hiring minorities ? Simple, they look at previous applicant applications to see who has all applied within a certain time frame. Hmm well 50 minorities applied, but one White male applied and he got the job..... the government will argue "you mean to tell me all 50 weren't qualified ?" Same for GL. Make subordinate lodges that are on the radar for possible bigotry give a record of who all petitioned the lodge. If 20 men of different races petitioned and none was accepted, then look into it. Not asking how one voted, but explain to the Lodge hey, your vote is your vote but we don't discriminate based on race etc.

 

[MRichard]

Exactly. So what does that tell you ? Times are changing for some, but not for all. I'm addressing GLS that refuse and continue to allow racism in a organization that contradicts racism.

There are issues on both sides. People have claimed that PHA don't take Muslims. I am referring to comments I saw on a Prince Hall Think Tank. I have no idea whether that is true or not.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

There are issues on both sides. People have claimed that PHA don't take Muslims. I am referring to comments I saw on a Prince Hall Think Tank. I have no idea whether that is true or not.

False : I attended the raising of a Muslim brother.

 

[MRichard]

Why can't you prove it ? How the government prove that an employer has discriminated against hiring minorities ? Simple, they look at previous applicant applications to see who has all applied within a certain time frame. Hmm well 50 minorities applied, but one White male applied and he got the job..... the government will argue "you mean to tell me all 50 weren't qualified ?" Same for GL. Make subordinate lodges give a record of who all petitioned the lodge. If 20 men of different races petitioned and none was accepted, then look into it. Not asking how one voted, but explain to the Lodge hey, your vote is your vote but we don't discriminate based on race etc.

There are employment laws for one thing. This is a private organization for another. Big difference.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

There are issues on both side. Not denying it one bit. I'm not just on this forum discussing this issue. I actually speak with brother from both GLS regarding this issue. I've spoke on it in my own lodge.

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[MRichard]

False : I attended a raising of a Muslim brother.

So you can speak for all PHA lodges? Wow. Funny, how that works.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

There are employment laws for one thing. This is a private organization for another. Big difference.

Discrimination is discrimination brother. There's no difference. If there was a difference then what's going on in the GL of GA and TN wouldn't matter.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

So you can speak for all PHA lodges? Wow. Funny, how that works.

Well given the fact that freemasonry isn't suppose to discriminate against a man for his religious view as long as he believes in a Supreme being I would say yes. That's PHA and GL. Are you aware of any PHA GL that doesn't allow Muslim brothers ? Please share so I can make a phone call ? Again I attended a raising of a Muslim brother. Now are there possibly some subordinate lodges that are predominantly Christian and shun the Islamic faith... sure thing, but are they operating on how the GL wants things to be ran.... no http://