Healing?

[acjohnson53]

Brother Keep Grinding, I'm headed to the Mystic Shrine in the near future...

 

[Brother JC]

From reading some of these post on this topic, in California PHA and AFAM Join each other on certain events..

The Grand Lodge of California is F&AM, and yes, they do events together with their PHA counterparts. My Mother GL (NM) is AF&AM and also does joint events with their PHA Brethren.

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

As to the original post, it is historically true. In the past proceedings of my Grand Lodge, it's written that a Clandestine or spurious mason could never become a Mason. This would have included Prince Hall Affiliated Masons at that point in time. Today, there may still be maybe one or two jurisdictions where this may still be applicable but that's highly unlikely since most jurisdictions erroneously heal over Clandestine masons or allow them to petition as a profane. But yes prior to the mid 19th century, if you were raised in a Clandestine body, regardless of race, you could never be a Mason.

 

[Glen Cook]

As to the original post, it is historically true. In the past proceedings of my Grand Lodge, it's written that a Clandestine or spurious mason could never become a Mason. This would have included Prince Hall Affiliated Masons at that point in time. Today, there may still be maybe one or two jurisdictions where this may still be applicable but that's highly unlikely since most jurisdictions erroneously heal over Clandestine masons or allow them to petition as a profane. But yes prior to the mid 19th century, if you were raised in a Clandestine body, regardless of race, you could never be a Mason.

And why are their actions in healing erroneous?

 

[MRichard]

Please keep in mind that each grand lodge is sovereign. The Grand Lodge of Louisiana's way of thinking is not binding upon another grand lodge .

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

And why are their actions in healing erroneous?

I say that based on the definition of a healing as defined by Albert Mackey in his encyclopedia on Freemasonry, as well as the past proceedings of my Grand Lodge. Essentially a healing is just a changing of allegiance/obedience and protection. A clandestine or spurious mason cannot be healed because if the jurisdiction considers the body the person came from to be Clandestine or doesn't recognize them, then they were never made masons.

It's the situation I am in right now. My Grand Lodge has approved my petition with the assumption that I would be healed over. Well, in order for me to be healed over, I would have to petition for affiliation to the lodge either by demit or by transfer. Since the jurisdiction I came from is not recognized by the Grand Lodge, and their Constitution states that if a person is raised in a lodge in this territory not under the Grand Lodge then he is not a mason, I cannot be healed. The laws also state that a healing is possible for a Clandestine or irregular mason, which confused me at first, but if I was gonna heal over, I would need a demit. Since the Grand Lodge doesn't accept my demit as valid (because they do not recognize the PHGL), I cannot be healed.

In other words, if I would have petitioned the lodge with the mere intention to affiliate (by demit or transfer), they more than likely would have healed me over, but that would have been in error.

Since I petitioned the lodge as a profane (which I was suppose to do per the laws) I must have the degrees conferred again. To which I prefer as the new lodge and degrees are Scottish.

Bro. Kevion Rogers, Michael Poll, the Grand Secretary and myself have been conferring with each other all weekend to figure out how to remedy this issue.

A Clandestine mason cannot be healed because he was never a made a mason, which would make regular jurisdictions that heal over spurious or clandestine masons, in error.

 

[Glen Cook]

Wait, you are not yet a member of the GL of LA?

And the degrees are not Scottish, but Scottish Rite. The word Scottish by itself would refer to the GL of Scotland

 

[Glen Cook]

I say that based on the definition of a healing as defined by Albert Mackey in his encyclopedia on Freemasonry, as well as the past proceedings of my Grand Lodge. Essentially a healing is just a changing of allegiance/obedience and protection. A clandestine or spurious mason cannot be healed because if the jurisdiction considers the body the person came from to be Clandestine or doesn't recognize them, then they were never made masons.

It's the situation I am in right now. My Grand Lodge has approved my petition with the assumption that I would be healed over. Well, in order for me to be healed over, I would have to petition for affiliation to the lodge either by demit or by transfer. Since the jurisdiction I came from is not recognized by the Grand Lodge, and their Constitution states that if a person is raised in a lodge in this territory not under the Grand Lodge then he is not a mason, I cannot be healed. The laws also state that a healing is possible for a Clandestine or irregular mason, which confused me at first, but if I was gonna heal over, I would need a demit. Since the Grand Lodge doesn't accept my demit as valid (because they do not recognize the PHGL), I cannot be healed.

In other words, if I would have petitioned the lodge with the mere intention to affiliate (by demit or transfer), they more than likely would have healed me over, but that would have been in error.

Since I petitioned the lodge as a profane (which I was suppose to do per the laws) I must have the degrees conferred again. To which I prefer as the new lodge and degrees are Scottish.

Bro. Kevion Rogers, Michael Poll, the Grand Secretary and myself have been conferring with each other all weekend to figure out how to remedy this issue.

A Clandestine mason cannot be healed because he was never a made a mason, which would make regular jurisdictions that heal over spurious or clandestine masons, in error.

That is the analysis for that GL. Others draw the distinction between an irregularly made Mason and a clandestine Mason. Others would not require a dimit. Others would require a renunciation and a petition as a profane.

I would caution against an overvteliance upon Mackey, particularly when he provides no citation. His Landmasrks aren't even accepted by all GLs (or by Pound, who certainly was a greater intellect and had the benefit of history.

 

[MRichard]

No healing process in my grand lodge.

 

[dfreybur]

We Masons love our technicalities and letter of the law, don't we? Sigh.

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

Wait, you are not yet a member of the GL of LA?

And the degrees are not Scottish, but Scottish Rite. The word Scottish by itself would refer to the GL of Scotland

I am a member. I was approved this February by the Grand Lodge. Technically I was healed over. I did the renouncing etc. The dilemma is that I want to have the degrees conferred upon me so that I can get the full experience.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

Why do brothers always attempt to downplay the influence of Albert Mackey when his jurisprudence is adopted in many of the laws of Masonic jurisdictions and his laws of jurisprudence still used in cases of common laws to this day?


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

 

[Glen Cook]

Why do brothers always attempt to downplay the influence of Albert Mackey when his jurisprudence is adopted in many of the laws of Masonic jurisdictions and his laws of jurisprudence still used in cases of common laws to this day?


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

Because those of us who actually work in Masonic jurisprudence understand that he was a commentator only at a time when Masonic jurisprudence in this country was not well developed

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

Because those of us who actually work in Masonic jurisprudence understand that he was a commentator only at a time when Masonic jurisprudence in this country was not well developed

Agreed, but what makes it developed now? We have difficulty following our own rules, and modify them to fit ideals instead of enacting a strict conformity to Masonic traditions and ancient (older) practices. Are we changing with the times or are we changing based on perceptions, interpretations, and opinions?

 

[Glen Cook]

Agreed, but what makes it developed now? We have difficulty following our own rules, and modify them to fit ideals instead of enacting a strict conformity to Masonic traditions and ancient (older) practices. Are we changing with the times or are we changing based on perceptions, interpretations, and opinions?

Let me respond by asking this: have interpretations of the US Constitution changed? We grow and evolve in our sensibilities as a national culture and as a Masonic culture.

Further, new Masonic constitutions were formed by sovereign grand lodges, sometimes reflecting the civil populist ideals of that time. This has resulted in some cases in a more democratic Masonic government with weakened powers of a GM. This is generally reckoned to be a good thing (and there is a certain gratification in telling an over reaching GM he can't do something).

 

[Mindovermatter Ace]

Let me respond by asking this: have interpretations of the US Constitution changed? We grow and evolve in our sensibilities as a national culture and as a Masonic culture.

Further, new Masonic constitutions were formed by sovereign grand lodges, sometimes reflecting the civil populist ideals of that time. This has resulted in some cases in a more democratic Masonic government with weakened powers of a GM. This is generally reckoned to be a good thing (and there is a certain gratification in telling an over reaching GM he can't do something).

Touché


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

 

[acjohnson53]

Bruh you being here before, keep putting it out there...

 

[Glen Cook]

Touché


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

Sorry. Touching isn't allowed in TN and GA.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

Sorry. Touching isn't allowed in TN and GA.

ROTFL - best comment yet on the situation!

 

[acjohnson53]

Hazing is not tolerated no where anymore...I witnessed a brother get hit while blind folded.....talking bout a sucker punch...