Homosexual and Bisexual Brother Masons

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Mason653, Jun 29, 2013.

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  1. Aeelorty

    Aeelorty Registered User

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    Frederick the Great was a homosexual and a Freemason. This should show that homosexuality is not banned in freemasonry.
     
  2. Heart of Stone

    Heart of Stone Registered User

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    I didn't think it was out of line, is their a rule or something you have to follow when asking questions?Me personally I wouldn't ask that question but I have no problem answering it.

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  3. Aeelorty

    Aeelorty Registered User

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    Oscar Wilde was also a homosexual and freemason
     
  4. Aeelorty

    Aeelorty Registered User

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    Lets change the topic just a bit to make the point. Is it ok for a Jewish brother to veto a petitioner who eats pork? Should he veto a Jewish petitioner who eats pork? I think we call all agree the answers is no. The second one might be controversial but the petitioner might approach his Judaism differently and it is clear that one brother may not push his religious views onto others, and that includes the beliefs of someone claiming the same religion but has different ideas about it.
     
  5. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    I find ironic that most religious leaders who condemn homosexuality also condemn Freemasonry.
     
  6. Roy Vance

    Roy Vance Certified Premium Member

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    Have no fear, my Brother. If there are homosexual or bi-sexual brothers in your lodge, they are there for the Masonry, not you. If they took their obligation as seriously as you did there is nothing to worry about. They are in search of the same light that you are. The only time I would get worried is if someone rubs your tush and winks. At that point I would have to break and run because I would not want to laugh in his face and embarass him in front of the entire lodge.
     
  7. Roy Vance

    Roy Vance Certified Premium Member

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    I hate to say it, but, the Catholic Church is really big on the comdemnation of both.
     
  8. Roy Vance

    Roy Vance Certified Premium Member

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    Had you been in Texas, and I been on the IC, that question would NEVER have been asked. It is not on our petition, either. When we investigate a petitioner, we look at other things about them, not their bedroom habits.
     
  9. Jericho2013

    Jericho2013 Premium Member

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    I am personally against it as I believe it would contradict every bible that could possibly sit on that altar. But if you have a candidate with a petition that has signatures of fellow brothers vouching for him and the investigative committee is for him then you are obligated to vote white. You have to base your vote on the findings of the IC and whether the candidate meets the requirements to become a mason. You are not allowed at least where I'm from to base your vote on your personal feelings. If you are wanting to vote black you have to notify the WM ahead of the ballot and have a VERY good and valid reason. So if it was even known that the candidate was a homosexual, which it most likely wouldn't be, and he met the requirements I would most definitely vote white.
     
  10. dhouseholder

    dhouseholder Registered User

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    Since I don't plan on sexually perusing any of my brothers, I care little for their preferences.

    Art. 505. Certain Other Masonic Disciplinary Violations.
    It shall be a Masonic disciplinary violation for a Lodge, a committee
    or any combination of Masons, or an individual Mason to:
    16. Disclose to any person how he voted on any applicant for
    affiliation or for the degrees, or on any question decided
    by a secret ballot.
     
  11. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Interesting. I'm told that the IC's report is to be taken as a strong suggestion, but not a de facto vote. You don't have to go with their decision although you probably should as long as they have done their due diligence.


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  12. Roy Vance

    Roy Vance Certified Premium Member

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    In reference to how you vote, I am glad Bro. dhouseholder brought the appropriate article to light, because, in my lodge I vote my heart and concience on a candidate or a brother in a ballot, not how someone else says I should vote. And, Bro. Queen also stated that the Investigating Committee's recommendations are not law, but just that, recommendations.
     
  13. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    My Brother, I don't know from where you got these statements, but they are absolutely untrue, individually AND collectively.
     
  14. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    This is also EXTREMELY untrue in Minnesota. Here it is considered unmasonic conduct to discuss your vote at all, including with the WM. The ballot is personal and private. The report of the investigating committee is advisory, not binding. If there's a black ball in the box, NO ONE may ask by whom or why the ballot was cast.
     
  15. rmcgehee

    rmcgehee Registered User

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    If this was the case then why vote at all.
     
  16. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    May I suggest that you reconsider your terminology and then see if you still see things that way. The Volume of Sacred Law is not a "bible". While in most lodges that you or I are familiar with, it is a copy of the KJV Bible that rests upon the altar, it is a mistake to understand that particular book as binding every Mason in that room, just as it is a mistake to think that any particular book serving as that piece of "essential furniture" might universally bind them.
    Again, the object that serves in that role is a symbol for that which each of us, individually, has chosen as our "rule and guide". I can assure you that many of them have nothing at all to say about homosexuality, or textiles of mixed fiber, or shellfish.

    As others have shared, when I have voted, I have been instructed to "vote for the good of Masonry". That pretty much excludes from consideration any traits that may be judged solely on my VSL's teachings. If Masonry is what we like to claim it is, a place where good men of many different spiritual beliefs may work to find common ground, nothing that is exclusive to this or that particular faith should enter into that work.
     
  17. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Has anyone seen a petition returned because the committee gave a negative report?

    One time 3 of us were in the candidate's living room asking if his wife is okay. This lead to a discussion that his minister objected. He said he intended to switch to the next church down the road to handle that problem. His wife made dagger eyes at him. Suddenly the 3 of us wanted to admire the bushes in their front yard for a few minutes while they discussed the topic. After discussion he apologized for petitioning. We returned his petition and it never went to vote. Reading the detailed rules of how we were supposed to handle the petition I don't know if that was actually allowed as an option but we were definitely going to deliver a negative recommendation and we didn't want him to get rejected. Better to unwind the process then and worry about the details later.
     
  18. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    If you're asking if a petition has been rejected because all or a majority of the investigators reported unfavorably, then yes, it's not uncommon. I have also seen where a recommender contacted the petitioner & advised him to withdraw his petition. The recommender had apparently smelled the coffee & didn't want to see the petition rejected. In that particular case, the petitioner resubmitted his petition a few months later and it was rejected at that time.
     
  19. Jericho2013

    Jericho2013 Premium Member

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    Obviously I received some bad information along the way. I stand corrected and thank all of you that responded to my post.


    When we vote most of us don't know the candidate personally. If he is vouched for on his petition and recommended by the committee then the norm would be to go with that and vote white. We never discussed how we voted with each other. It's been a while but if I remember correctly they would announce the results of the vote afterwards and state if he was accepted. I read in some Texas voting procedures a long time ago that if a brother wanted to vote black he would have to submit in writing to the WM beforehand as to why. It was not from the by-laws. And obviously that was bad information. I am personally against the homosexual lifestyle but it would not keep me from voting white if he is vouched for and recommended. I would treat him no differently if it was known. I apologize and certainly did not mean to spread any bad information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  20. tldubb

    tldubb Premium Member

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    We as Masons should stay out of bedrooms. What does sexual preference has to do with Faith, Hope, and Charity?
     
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