Is Christianity really compatible with Freemasonry?

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by jjjjjggggg, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    That's a pretty bold ascertation. Who were the founding fathers of speculative masonry, and are we sure that every single one of them were Christian? And do we have sufficient knowledge to know for sure that none of them had deconverted later in life?

    Even so, even if all of them were Christian, it still doesn't mean that freemasonry as a philosophy is compatible with Christianity.

    But as has been pointed out above, the term Christianity doesn't encompass one single interpretation, so the initial question itself is flawed. So for any minister or preacher to say otherwise is wrong. There is no one single guiding authority, at least not anymore, so no man may make a blanket edict concerning whether or not Christians should be masons or not. It is left to a man's own personal convictions and "guidance by the Holy Spirit".
     
  2. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I don't think it's that bold an assertion as long as it s used to refer to the foundation of the Premier Gland Lodge of England in 1717. They required their members to be Christians for a couple of decades before dropping that requirement.

    Of course it can't refer to the mythical foundation of the order by Solomon, Hiram and Hiram in 3000 BC because of the timing, and it does not refer to the current time because that requirement has long since been dropped.

    Also true even though it seems in conflict with the requirement at that time. In fact as in this discussion whether we're compatible is an individual decision, so it's also true that any one person claiming incompatibility doesn't make it incompatible for others.

    I would phase it that there is a single guiding authority, but that it's one inside everyone's heart and every heart may hear a different tune.
     
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  3. Morris

    Morris Premium Member

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    Because I love history so much, do you know a reputable book on this tidbit of info? I would like to read about the transition of dropping the requirement. Thanks



    Jeff
     
  4. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    It's a bold assertion until a credible and reliable source is quoted. I've just started Joseph Fort Newton's "The Builders". I've heard that it provides a more reasonable, honest, and thorough look at the beginnings of speculative masonry. I'm hoping that it doesn't disappoint.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  5. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    If there is a doctrinal conflict between Masonry and Christianity, then no Christian can be a Mason and no Mason can be a Christian, it is that simple. In addition, Christianity is founded upon fire AND water. It was tongues of flame that bestowed the Church upon the Apostles at Pentecost, and they baptized by water. Claiming that, to be a Freemason, one must be a Cainite, is imposing religious dogma upon Freemasonry and going along with all the lies told by its various clerical enemies over the centuries.
     
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  6. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Why is it so important to you to "prove" that Christians must not be admitted as Freemasons or that they must not become Freemasons? What is the origin of your implacable hostility (no matter how dressed up it might be in pretty terminology)?
     
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  7. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    Wow, reading comprehension much? Go back and read again without your victim complex and see if anything I said was against Christians being Freemasons. Because if it isn't clear enough already, I DO NOT take issue with it. I thought I could come here and have an honest conversation about a question without someone getting butthurt, and it is no surprise to me you'd be the one to read more into a post than what is there. You sir have not acted on the level.
     
  8. Rick Carver

    Rick Carver Premium Member

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    A conflict exists between people who confuse religion with spirituality. Religion and Church is mainly ritual and dogma. Much of the outward appearance of Freemasonry is displayed in its ritual and dogma. People are bound to find differences/similarities and conflicts. The bottom line, IMHO, boils down to time and $$$$. There is a finite amount of both. Men who spend their allotted time and/or $$$$ on Masonic endeavors have less, or sometimes neither, to give to the Church. Freemasonry relies on the giving of man's time and $$$$. The Church relies on the giving of man's time and $$$$. It is only natural that a conflict would eventually occur when a resource is finite. This conflict is disguised and often presented in some other ways, but it always comes back to 'we want to control your time and your $$$$, because when we control them, we control YOU.'
     
  9. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    I can just as easily way that, if religion and church have become "mainly ritual and dogma", that "religion" has ceased being a religion and that "church" has ceased being a church. Means to end or end in and of itself? Exercise for health or exercise just to exercise? When the means becomes the end, the means ceases to be what it was and becomes something else.

    If that's all it comes down to, then neither is worth a fig.
     
  10. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    I see, so you accuse me of dishonesty. You must live in a miserable world in which nobody is ever able to misunderstand something and everyone does everything with malicious intent.
     
  11. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    That's the exact kind of snide remarks you make on a consistent basis, not only to me, but others on here as well. Especially when folks want to have an honest question about anything religion related. I see your Christianity and masonry as an excuse. From this point on I'm done with you.
     
  12. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Scale back on the tempers and accusations or this thread will be closed for discussion in short order.


    Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
     
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  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Start with James Anderson and his Constitutions of 1723 and 17384.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Anderson_(Freemason)

    http://freemasoninformation.com/masonic-education/books/andersons-constitutions-of-1723/

    http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/libraryscience/25/

    It's quite explicit that as of 1723 the landmark was no atheist and no specific religion.
     
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  14. Attila Weinberger

    Attila Weinberger Registered User

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    I dare to believe all of us agree that Masonry is NOT a religion... It's not healthy nor smart to heat up emotions and promote personal opinions among those who enjoy and accept a much wider angel based on strict and solemn oaths. By the way... did you took those?


    Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
     
  15. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    What did/are you trying to say? I was
    a believer long before I became a mason, a mason a long but shorter time before I got baptized and about ten years after that before I started going to church , have been attending almost every Sunday and only recently becoming active again in the craft,so if there is a real conflict I must not understand either, just my non-humble opinion , for the record I am 55, I,P&R in 84 baptized at 33, recently healed PHA FOR LIFE!!! WWEA,SMIB!!!


    Bro Book
    M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
    Excelsior # 43
    At pensacola
     
  16. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    As an excuse for what , you do remember that you made it a point to point out that you used to be believer in the fact that a Man got up from the dead but don't believe that anymore or did I miss something and for record the term Christian as well as goat rider were originally derogatory terms, that being said we should all remember how good and pleasant it is to remember in our youth that the GAOTU will not over look those who just pretend to be ignorant


    Bro Book
    M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
    Excelsior # 43
    At pensacola
     
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  17. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    I really like this and it feels very relevant to some of the threads I've been seeing lately. Thank you for sharing.
     
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  18. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Actually, it's quite obvious that we don't all agree that. I agree that it's not a religion, but there are others here who insist that it is--and they're Masons.
     
  19. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    And that particular qualification makes them no more of an authority on the matter than any other Mason. We are all entitled to our own opinions, of course, but not to our own facts. I have yet to see the opinions on the matter, of even the most erudite Brethren (Pike, Mackey, Wilmhurst, et al), defended with something approaching incontrovertible facts. If your belief is that Freemasonry is a religion because it's similar to this or that religion in some regard, I can't prove otherwise. Beliefs are chosen for reasons not often rational. I can, however, observe that Freemasonry has none of the things that actually define a religion.
     
  20. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    "Is Freemasonry compatible with your theology/faith/belief system?" That is the question each candidate must ask themselves. Beyond that, debate degrades to argument and no one enjoys the benefits of harmony.
    We have several threads going right now that are basically the same circular dead-end, and I for one would rather discuss blue vs red than read any more of this.
     
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