Is Christianity really compatible with Freemasonry?

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by jjjjjggggg, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    So, just play paper dolls with the Landmarks?
     
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  2. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Congratulations on being so pedantic that you completely missed the point.
     
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  3. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I quote from Albert Mackey "The Symbolism of Freemasonry" Chapter1 page 1

    "He must not confound the doctrine of Freemasonry with its outward and extrinsic form. He must not suppose that certain usages and ceremonies, which exist at this day, but which, even now, are subject to extensive variations in different countries, constitute the sum and substance of Freemasonry. ... But it must be always remembered that the ceremony is not the substance. It is but the outer garment which covers and perhaps adorns it, as clothing does the human figure."

    From this I deduce that the outer form, including the exclusion of various types of human, varies across the ages but the underlying philosophy of Freemasonry remains unchanged.

    I might go further and suggest that if religious leaders object to the current form of Masonic ritual then they may wish to consider that the form adapts to the time and the culture and is not the essence of Freemasonry.
     
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  4. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I hope you realize that the "Landmarks" you refer to vary greatly within those few jurisdictions that actually have them and are non-existent in the rest.
     
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  5. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    The work of a Mason is to discover the essence buried beneath the form. This is not only true of Masonry but of life as well. It is a difficult journey that, in Masonry, is called the search for the lost word. It is an appropriate allegory. A word is a symbol for something. The form of a word can be a sound, combination of letters, or some other symbol. But the essence of a word is something other than the form. Form is a like a vehicle which carries the essence. Masonic Ritual, Lodges, Traditions, History, etc, are the forms, the vehicles, which carry the essence. Any attempt to discuss the essence must be carried out using the some type of forms, some symbolism which is by its very nature is less than complete.
     
  6. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Congratulations on deciding to resort to ad hominem when you fail to actually make your point in a way that is understood. You are free to now hurl more personal insults as a substitute for actually speaking plainly and actually stating your allege "point".
     
  7. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Okay, then, so it's the consensus of the "enlightened" that there actually are no standards in Freemasonry?
     
  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >it's the consensus of the "enlightened" that there actually are no standards in Freemasonry?

    I have on occasion observed flows of Light within the temple. (There are many Lights possible within Masonry). The presence or absence of the flows of Light tell us whether the lodge is meeting the required standards.

    To put it in more religious terms - when a blessing is invoked from the GAOTU, the GAOTU determines whether the brethren are suitable for that blessing, or whether the spiritual energy would be too distorted by the recipients. There is also the issue of whether the recipients can withstand the flows.

    I was recently demonstrating the use of the wands in a practice and had to stop because one of the brethren was becoming overloaded. He did not realise that at the time, but afterwards said to me that he had suddenly felt rather tired.
     
  9. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I don't know who might encompass or be included in this "enlightened" group that you allude to and I don't think that was the point of your posted response so I shall not linger upon it any further.

    That being said....

    The Standards of any Freemasonic Group determine Regularity for that Group and that Group alone.

    When such Standards are compatible with other Groups and each Group seek to obtain Recognition from the other, negotiations start toward that end.

    Those that get past the Recognition exercise may or may not move toward inter-visitation.
     
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  10. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I agree completely. Ask 10 Masons what the "true" meaning of a point within a circle is and you'll get 11 answers. How can one say that the purpose of Freemasonry isn't compatible with Christianity when we all have different ideas about what the "true" purpose of Freemasonry is? You get out of Masonry what you put into it. If you don't want to do something you perceive as being unChristian, then don't. I love when the anti's say things like "you're unknowing worshipping Satan!". How does one unknowingly worship anything? Worship is intent and adoration, you can't do it on accident.
     
  11. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    Wow, that's like, the best explanation of how Virtue relates to Wisdom that I have ever read. Thanks!
     
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  12. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    The York Rite is Christian, It originated in Ireland, (popular speculation), and was established here in America by Thomas Smith Webb sometime in 1799
    It expands upon the blue lodge basics and there is nothing that I have found which is contradictory to blue lodge, therefore I can conclude that Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible, unless the Christians want to hunt for heretics, ( just joking )
     
  13. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I'm unsure of which part of the York Rite you speak. As to HRA only, the current thought is summed up at Wiki (though there are errors in other parts of the article):
    Fredericksburg Lodge in Virginia lists a conferral of the Royal Arch degree on December 22, 1753.[13][14] There is also a Royal Arch Chapter noted in 1769 in Massachusetts (St. Andrew's Royal Arch Chapter in Boston, then known as Royall Arch Lodge), where the first Knights Templar degree was also conferred.[15] Through a report compiled by the Committee on History and Research appointed by the Grand Chapter of Massachusetts in 1953 and 1954, it was found that St. Andrew's Royal Arch Chapter was the oldest constituted Chapter in the Western Hemisphere, having been officially constituted April 9, 1769, though the records implied that the Chapter had been working prior to that date, and perhaps as early as 1762. The report also states that it is unknown whether the Fredericksburg Lodge in Virginia conferred only the Royal Arch degree or the entire series of degrees.[16]"

    I am unclear why HRA would be thought to be Christian.
     
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  14. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    It is not too hard to find in HRA: Jewish, Sumerian, Hindu and perhaps Scottish components.
     
  15. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Here's another view that I posted recently upon Facebook for your consideration:

    ...The best definition of Wisdom that I have come across? Brace yourself!

    Wisdom is what occurs when one's heart, head and spirit: ...
    1) have been moved from Chaos to Order,
    2) are all connected,
    3) are all aligned and
    4) and are in full agreement.

    But that's just something I got from my Travels. Others might not see the Wisdom in this. (and Yes, you may quote me on this!)​

    ;-)

    Coach N
     
  16. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Would it be more accurate to say that "some aspects of the York Rite Path are Supportive of Christians, but not necessarily Christianity as a whole"?
    Bro.! For your consideration:

    http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-lost-masters-word-acid-test.html

    Once you read my thoughts on this, I believe you might see that any illusion of providing the Master's Word is incompatible with the Blue Lodge Teachings. Furthermore, doing so is the antithesis of what is being conveyed by the 3rd Degree Drama. Moreover, once examined carefully, it would be concluded that you have to be a Ruffian to buy into such a premise.

    Of course, I am open to discourse on this if interested. ;)

    Heretic Hunt anyone? :D [snicker]
     
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  17. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    I have asked a lot of Masons about the orders of architecture and have never before received this answer. It appears that much contemplation is needed on this concept. Where would I begin?
     
  18. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    AWESOME!!!!!

    Sure Bro.! Here are steps that you can take to begin and even get you there.

    Seek to Understand:
    1) What each of the 5 columns actually represent symbolically.
    2) Why the Greek columns are so important to Blue Lodge Work, and the Roman not so much.
    3) Which column you enter as and why you have accepted this as the reality of a newbie.
    4) Which column best represents a man who has ACTUALLY DONE the Blue Lodge Work, (and if you know what I mean by the Blue Lodge Work you are way ahead of the parrots that don't.)

    Only after you have done the above seek to make an effort to create a map using the columns to show Masonic Progression.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  19. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    I stand corrected, some parts are Christian, I interpret Christianity in a broader sense which is not specifically correct
     
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  20. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I am not YR, so I'll tread lightly on the subject. But I read a very in depth discussion on the different columns not long ago. Based on what I've been reading lately, I think it was most likely Wilmshurst, but I'll need to go back to confirm that.
     
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