Masonic communication between "mainstream" Masonry and PH Masonry

[Ripcord22A]

Exactly, that's my point. If I know you to be a MM and you vouch for a brother that you know one to be, that is lawful Masonic information.

The only way that you know the man that did the vouching to be a mason is by being in lodge with him

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[Warrior1256]

The only way that you know the man that did the vouching to be a mason is by being in lodge with him

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Exactly. Bottom line....the only way that you can truly KNOW that any man is a MM is if you have sat in lodge with him. Obviously, if a man you KNOW to be an MM vouches for another that is good enough.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Exactly. Bottom line....the only way that you can truly KNOW that any man is a MM is if you have sat in lodge with him. Obviously, if a man you KNOW to be an MM vouches for another that is good enough.

I don't know what is so hard to understand on this one. other then vouching and sitting in lodge are there other ways that jurisdictions are teaching to find out if a man is a Mason? here's how it goes in my jurisdictions:

man shows up at lodge and wants to attend the meeting-man approaches member and declares his intentions, members take him to the WM who assigns an inv committee to try the man-man shows ID and Dues card-lodge Sec verifies that the mans lodge is recognized by us-man takes the Tyler's oath- man is admitted to lodge....here's where NM and OR differ in NM unless the JD was present for the try of this man he will stop in front of him when he is satisfying himself that all present are of the appropriate degree, at this time one of the bros that was present will VOUCH for him. In OR the SW stands and observes the lodge to satisfy himself that all are of the appropriate degree, if he wasn't there for trying of this man then someone would have to VOUCH for him.
It was the same when a group of us visited another jurisdiction, our JGW who had sat in this particular lodge had to vouch for the 20ish of us that their JD didn't know.

 

[mrpierce17]

I don't know what is so hard to understand on this one. other then vouching and sitting in lodge are there other ways that jurisdictions are teaching to find out if a man is a Mason? here's how it goes in my jurisdictions:

man shows up at lodge and wants to attend the meeting-man approaches member and declares his intentions, members take him to the WM who assigns an inv committee to try the man-man shows ID and Dues card-lodge Sec verifies that the mans lodge is recognized by us-man takes the Tyler's oath- man is admitted to lodge....here's where NM and OR differ in NM unless the JD was present for the try of this man he will stop in front of him when he is satisfying himself that all present are of the appropriate degree, at this time one of the bros that was present will VOUCH for him. In OR the SW stands and observes the lodge to satisfy himself that all are of the appropriate degree, if he wasn't there for trying of this man then someone would have to VOUCH for him.
It was the same when a group of us visited another jurisdiction, our JGW who had sat in this particular lodge had to vouch for the 20ish of us that their JD didn't know.

Pretty much the way it works here

 

[Warrior1256]

man shows up at lodge and wants to attend the meeting-man approaches member and declares his intentions, members take him to the WM who assigns an inv committee to try the man-man shows ID and Dues card-lodge Sec verifies that the mans lodge is recognized by us-man takes the Tyler's oath- man is admitted to lodge.

The only difference here is that after the Tyler's oath the visitor will be asked a few questions that he should know from his obligations. Some lodges will then further test his knowledge by asking him to "do" a certain thing.

 

[Bloke]

I don't know what is so hard to understand on this one. other then vouching and sitting in lodge are there other ways that jurisdictions are teaching to find out if a man is a Mason? here's how it goes in my jurisdictions:

man shows up at lodge and wants to attend the meeting-man approaches member and declares his intentions, members take him to the WM who assigns an inv committee to try the man-man shows ID and Dues card-lodge Sec verifies that the mans lodge is recognized by us-man takes the Tyler's oath- man is admitted to lodge....here's where NM and OR differ in NM unless the JD was present for the try of this man he will stop in front of him when he is satisfying himself that all present are of the appropriate degree, at this time one of the bros that was present will VOUCH for him. In OR the SW stands and observes the lodge to satisfy himself that all are of the appropriate degree, if he wasn't there for trying of this man then someone would have to VOUCH for him.
It was the same when a group of us visited another jurisdiction, our JGW who had sat in this particular lodge had to vouch for the 20ish of us that their JD didn't know.

LOL.... um, not how it works here... probably because we just dont have the irregular and clandestine lodges you have.

For example, a PM from New Zealand appeared last meeting. He had paperwork and was expected. Alone, I took him into the kitchen at lodge, he had a sealed travel letter saying his dues were current and that he was a PM.... i tested him as an EA, then FC, then asked how he proved himself a MM, he passed.... then i just asked him if he was a PM, he said he was, so i vouched for him. He was also the uncle of our WMEs partner, he'd never been tested, i'd asked before i started.

Senario 2, a bro from Grand Orient of Brazil turned up with paper work and current dues card. The "orient" concerned me, so i did not test him because i thought his GL was irregular: i copied his travel letter etc and emailed GL. .They later confirmed we were in Amity, so later i tested him (whacky different signs) yet admitted him on basis of paperwork and my GL.

Another senario, a UGLE unknown bro turns up... i palm him off to the tyler to test... or if the tyler had not turned up, i would ask the JW if he felt comfortable testing him (its his responsibility ), if not, i would test then vouch for him.

Yet another, a guy is at my house. Says he's a mason from another jurisdiction i know are regular. The conversation drifts to places of a tyled meeting. I feel comfortable with him, so i check the blinds r shut, door locked, and i test him.

Indeed, here, i would say YOU DO NOT find out if a bro is a Mason in lodge, but before...... we dont go around the room asking for proof, we do it outside before the meeting commences... unknown brothers are often admitted during the meeting at a designated time, but they will have already been tested and vouched for...... if they are there at the opening by leave of the wm, he should ask who is vouching for him...

Our approach is different

 

[Ripcord22A]

LOL.... um, not how it works here... probably because we just dont have the irregular and clandestine lodges you have.

For example, a PM from New Zealand appeared last meeting. He had paperwork and was expected. Alone, I took him into the kitchen at lodge, he had a sealed travel letter saying his dues were current and that he was a PM.... i tested him as an EA, then FC, then asked how he proved himself a MM, he passed.... then i just asked him if he was a PM, he said he was, so i vouched for him. He was also the uncle of our WMEs partner, he'd never been tested, i'd asked before i started.

Senario 2, a bro from Grand Orient of Brazil turned up with paper work and current dues card. The "orient" concerned me, so i did not test him because i thought his GL was irregular: i copied his travel letter etc and emailed GL. .They later confirmed we were in Amity, so later i tested him (whacky different signs) yet admitted him on basis of paperwork and my GL.

Another senario, a UGLE unknown bro turns up... i palm him off to the tyler to test... or if the tyler had not turned up, i would ask the JW if he felt comfortable testing him (its his responsibility ), if not, i would test then vouch for him.

Yet another, a guy is at my house. Says he's a mason from another jurisdiction i know are regular. The conversation drifts to places of a tyled meeting. I feel comfortable with him, so i check the blinds r shut, door locked, and i test him.

Indeed, here, i would say YOU DO NOT find out if a bro is a Mason in lodge, but before...... we dont go around the room asking for proof, we do it outside before the meeting commences... unknown brothers are often admitted during the meeting at a designated time, but they will have already been tested and vouched for...... if they are there at the opening by leave of the wm, he should ask who is vouching for him...

Our approach is different

Its pretty much the same, again the same but different!

 

[Bloke]

Its pretty much the same, again the same but different!

That seems the pattern JD....

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

No it's not the same. You stated that the only way to really know a man to be a mason is by sitting in Lodge with him. Scenario 4 disputes this argument.

 

[Ripcord22A]

No it's not the same. You stated that the only way to really know a man to be a mason is by sitting in Lodge with him. Scenario 4 disputes this argument.

I was refering to his final paragraph

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[Blake Bowden]

Hopefully a well informed brother can help me out.

I belong to a lodge under The Grand Lodge Of Texas. The other day I met a PH Mason who just moved here from Florida. He hasn't affiliated with any lodge here in Texas yet, and I know that both grand lodges recognize each other as regular and inter visitation is permitted after certain permission is granted, but can I speak masonically with him outside of lodge?

No.

To the other Brothers, please stay on topic or create a new one. Play nice..

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

I guess it's a jurisdictional teaching. Nothing too serious.

 

[MasonicAdept]

The twist is, he is black. I did also give him the little info I knew about PH FM. Also knowing that some states have "issues" I double checked with my own EA degree coaches and as far as they are concerned there is no issue here at our lodge and should be no issue in our state.

@Joseph Thornton, are "issues" pertaining to him being BLACK and petitioning a predominantly white Lodge? in Colorado?

The only exception is, one of them was under the assumption that if a black man wants to join a Blue Lodge in this state, he'd need to request a waiver from the PH lodge. The assumption was also indicated that it should be a small formality with no issues to do so. For instance he lives on the west side of town, the PH lodge is on the east side. So the drive is less than convenient when there are multiple Blue Lodges closer than the PH Lodge is.

I hope that this "assumption" was cleared up. Because I would think this to be a strange practice.

 

[MasonicAdept]

Again, I'm still missing something. Why does a "black man" need to get permission from a PH GL to join a state GL. It's almost like saying if your black you have to a a PH mason, and if you don't want to then you need a wavier to be something else. Please don't take offense as this is not directed at you, I just don't understand the logic.

I concur...