Masonry

[dfreybur]

Oh ok...I'm trying to be careful the with the words...by bogus you mean not recognized yet or a lodge without history or a lodge that do not practice the principles of masonry?And before prince hall was officially recognized were they 'bogus'?sorry if I do not formulate my question the right way...

For a lodge to be valid it has to be regular. For a lodge to be recognized there are some more steps. A brother should always be a member of at least one lodge affiliated with a regular and recognized jurisdiction.

A lodge not affiliated with a grand lodge is automatically bogus. Being a affiliated with a grand lodge does always not make a lodge not bogus - There needs to be a continuous lineage from England, Scotland or Ireland. No lineage, no validity. As to Prince Hall, African 459 was chartered correctly. Claims that his lineage has not been continuous are incorrect and if a jurisdiction says that it's time to look up their lineage. The problem is there are plenty of jurisdictions that used the name Prince Hall and made up their own grand lodge without any lineage.

There are other issues of regularity. Groups that dropped belief in a supreme being or being male exist but are not regular. They chose to become clandestine for various reasons.

There are two places to start when looking up recognition and lineage. United Grand Lodge of England for most of the world and also the Conference of Grand Masters Prince Hall for the remaining states that don't have recognition yet.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges See North America tab. http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp

Being in America your PHA jurisdiction needs to be in either. Being in California it needs to be in both. This one is the regular and recognized California PHA jurisdiction. http://www.mwphglcal.org/

If you joined a lodge not in that jurisdiction thinking you got the real thing, I suggest it's time to approach one of their affiliated lodges and request healing.

You mentioned your lodge is number 5. Here's their lodge number 5 -

St. John

5

9027 S. Figueroa St., Los Angeles, CA 90003-3229

2nd & 4th Wednesday 7:30 p.m.

 

[bupton52]

Oh ok...I'm trying to be careful the with the words...by bogus you mean not recognized yet or a lodge without history or a lodge that do not practice the principles of masonry?And before prince hall was officially recognized were they 'bogus'?sorry if I do not formulate my question the right way...


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App

The bogusness of the GLs that they speak about is because of their lack of bloodline or lineage to the mother GLs. That regularity of origin is very important. While PHGLs were not always recognized, their regularity of origin has remained constant. Regularity and recognition are two entirely different things.

 

[frankmason]

The bogusness of the GLs that they speak about is because of their lack of bloodline or lineage to the mother GLs. That regularity of origin is very important. While PHGLs were not always recognized, their regularity of origin has remained constant. Regularity and recognition are two entirely different things.

Thanks for the explanation ...in other words one can be regular and not recognized and still not Be called 'bogus' right?this is still delicate to me..I thought both (regularity of origins and recognition)were required for a legitimate lodge because if the first(regularity)makes one legitimate why add up the later(recognition)?


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App

 

[dfreybur]

...in other words one can be regular and not recognized and still not Be called 'bogus' right?this is still delicate to me..I thought both (regularity of origins and recognition)were required for a legitimate lodge because if the first(regularity)makes one legitimate why add up the later(recognition)?

Every state has exactly one regular PHA jurisdiction (some are hosted out of an adjacent state so the list is shorter than 51). They recognize each other all around.

Here's a map showing states with and without recognition. http://bessel.org/masrec/phamap.htm Generally when a state votes to recognize PHA the next year UGLE votes to recognize and other recognition spreads across the world. Some do blanket recognition (Illinois etc). Some send invitations for mutual recognition (California, etc). All sorts of details with variation.

Because recognition is a jurisdiction by jurisdiction thing differences like this happen. On an international scale the Conference on Grand Masters recommended pulling recognition for GNLF a few years ago. When it came to the floor in Illinois that year I was in attendance. We voted to keep recognition and give them ore time - generosity.

Regular means you can work towards visitation. Real traditional recognition means you can visit and apply for dual affiliations if both jurisdictions have that feature. The story of PHA recognitions has included only pieces of this real traditional recognition in many cases, for reasons that often aren't clear but that were generally requested by the PHA jurisdiction being recognized.

So regular and recognized are both valid but there are levels. The system allows for variation and evolution within the Masonic world. Recognition ends up forming an incomplete web of regular jurisdictions where missing links says something about a jurisdictions history relative to the rest of the world.

So you will want to petition a regular lodge at least. If you will travel and want to visit you will want to petition a regular and recognized lodge. Depending on the map referenced above the travel in question can be within the US and/or around the world.

Sorry but my paragraph points here are organized in a web so they don't add up linearly. They reference each other so they don't stand alone.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

Can a AF AM visit a prince hall lodge and vice versa can a prince hall mason visit a regular blue lodge? Is that against jurisdiction or Masonic rules?

There is one point that was unclear to me in this post, and which I have not seen clarified. (I could easily have missed the explanation if it was stated)
I am in the process of moving from a state which is F&AM to a state which is AF&AM. I am currently in the process of applying for dual plural membership, which will make me a member of both Grand Lodges. In both of these states the mainstream Grand Lodges are in amity with the Prince Hall Grand Lodge and visitation is permitted.

 

[Brother JC]

If visitation is permitted in both jurisdictions then there's no problem. Enjoy your ability to visit many lodges.

 

[BroBook]

When you say AF AM, are you referring to the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM affiliated Lodges, or predominantly African American AF&AM, or "4 Letter" Lodges/Grand Lodges? There is a difference............please advise, and I can provide a clear explanation for whichever response is given...............Bro. Jones[/QUOTE
Texas is big but the earth does not revolve around it "I " think he meant "mainstream" & Prince Hall but the answer for now in Texas and some other southern states mine being one is no in both cases for different reasons


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola