Preston Webb and Duncan

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by SimonM, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    As an uninformed european I only have the most vague notions about the emulation rite and duncans rite.
    The names Preston and Webb was mentioned in another thread and I got curious. Are the ceremonies described by Duncan similar to the rites by Webb and Preston?
    How much have the rites evolved in the US from when they were written?
     
  2. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    @Glen Cook @coachn @dfreybur among others may be best suited for this lol. If I missed someone that usually has a better understanding, my apologies but these guys came to mind though. ;)
     
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Is there a question?
     
  4. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Yes, in the original post a gentleman was asking a question that's probably a little out of my spectrum.
     
  5. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Oh! Thanks.
     
  6. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    I'm trying to get a grasp of the relationship between the Duncan and Preston Webb rites. Are they close or are they separate branches on the masonic tree?
    For example, if I pick up a copy of Duncans monitor, would I see something similar to what Preston wrote?
     
  7. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    This is a hard question to answer because each state is sovereign unto itself.
     
  8. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    I know that each GL is sovereign, but what about when the rite was written, before it had time to diverge?
     
  9. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    Again, it depends on lineage.

    The Grand Lodge of New Jersey has it's charter from England. Other states may originate from other recognized sources. Ancients vs. Moderns, etc.

    I will do some research, if possible, to see what was practiced in New Jersey after our charter was granted from England. However, I want to say that our Masonic history predates the 1717 GL date.

    I may be confused on the issue so I will get in touch with my secretary to see if the GL has any historical records (I'm sure they do) of masonry in NJ pre and post 1717.
     
  10. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    As far as I understand it, Duncan's is not from any particular jurisdiction. It was written as a Masonic exposure, is probably an amalgamation of several different versions of ritual, and was never the official ritual of any jurisdiction.
     
  11. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Has anyone here looked at the years these guys were active and when their works were first published?
     
  12. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The problem with comparing these rituals is one of them is an expose' and I've promised not to help anyone on expose's. Expose' books are easy enough to find but they are books you have to find yourself.
     
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  13. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    I know Preston wrote his major works in the late 18th century (1774 is the year I found) , Webb around 1800 and Duncan in 1866. What I wanted to know was if there was any similarities between the rituals but as @dfreybur points out, that might be a bad idea to discuss here.

    So, let me change the topic of this thread a bit.
    Preston and the later Webb was greatly influencial in how masonry was developed in the us. Are there any resources available describing the development of that rite? Are there any other major rites that is worked (by regular lodges) in america?
     
  14. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    A couple of year ago Brother Robert Davis published "The Mason's Words" about the history and development of the American ritual. It's a very good read and also touches on how the work came over from England.

    https://www.amazon.com/Masons-Words-History-Evolution-American/dp/061585382X
     
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  15. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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  16. drw72

    drw72 Premium Member

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    Very good book so far....I am reading it now (got mine through B&N online)
     
  17. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Duncan didn't actually create a ritual, he wrote out a training aid. It was NOT an exposé. He felt the Brethren would be better served having the rituals at hand.
    I will second the recommendation for Brother Davis's book, "The Mason's Words."
     
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  18. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    Do you know which ritual did he write the training aid for? Was it Emulation of some other rite?
     
  19. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  20. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    What follow is my opinion and not fact.

    The P-W work is not a uniformed work or at least what we refer to when we say P-W. It is a general outline of which there are many differences between the various ways each grand lodge conducts this work. For example I've been to lodge is Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, DC, and Maryland each of which use the P-W work and each are different. However, they are very similar. Location of information within the ritual, words of similar meaning, sentences reworked but with the same meaning, floor work, variations in placement of items (some omitted altogether) etc. The difference's being so slight actually is making it hard for me to "forget" on way and learn another.

    Let there be no illusion to any brother even in locations where there is only one authorized ritual done it is still different from lodge to lodge. I would venture to say and ancient landmark of Masonry is that things are different. The little differences (or large) show different aspects and possibly provide information that is "missing" or makes sense in the work. The differences are beautiful and a part of our gentle craft.

    These my two cents. Happy new years brother.
     
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