Refusing...

[owls84]

I think what we are running into are issues of how things are handled diffrently at diffrent Lodges. At Bro. JBD's Lodge the SD reports to the SW and one of the duties is make sure every single member is vouched for, examined, or produces some form of ID IAW Art. 381. Once that is done he will sit in Lodge and let the SW know. Now obviously EVERY member in that Lodge has the ability to not be satisfied. And the SW would then purge the Lodge.

This is a good thing though and I REALLY can't figure out why this is such a big issue. I know this is one thing I have been trying to do at Lake Worth, is to get the officers ACTUAL responsibilities instead of it all falling on the Master and Secretary. As JBD and Tom both said, if everyone does their job then less problems occur. Sad thing here is because of EGOS (weaker side of man) we can't have a debatable discussion on the forum because we have to close out the threads.

 

[Bill Lins]

I think what we are running into are issues of how things are handled diffrently at diffrent Lodges.

Therein lies the problem. We all took a solemn obligation in which we swore that we would abide by the Laws of the GLoT, including not only the article regarding avouchment but also Chapter 17, Title 1, which gives the Committee on Work sole authority to promulgate the ritual and floorwork to be used in ALL Texas Lodges. Any Lodge which does not comply with the above, and the officers thereof, are committing a Masonic disciplinary violation.

It's not that big a deal to do it correctly. Holland #1 has almost 450 members & gets a lot of visitors. Their SW is NEVER satisfied. Their Deacons, being properly trained & competent in their duties, regularly complete the avouchment process in 2 minutes or less, a small price to pay for getting it right.

 

[Traveling Man]

Could a Lodge member remain unsatisfied even if a visitor provided proper ID and dues card?

Sure, why not?
I recently attended my mother lodge and was not recognized by anyone although the WM later recognized me from my picture as a PM. It was great fun when the Sr. Deacon was "not satisfied" but later had to introduce me as a PM. :smile:

 

[Bill Lins]

OK- time for a pop quiz: a Brother who claims to be a member of your Lodge wishes to enter. No one in the Lodge can state that they have ever sat in Lodge with him. Does he get in or not and, if he does, how?

First correct answer gets a :beer:!

 

[Smokey613]

Just an interesting note. I recently visited a lodge I had never been to before nor did I know anyone at the lodge. I did know the candidate that was being intiated and thus the reason for my being there. I introduced myself to everyone. No one ask for verification of my standing as a MM. As we were eating the meal before the opening of the lodge I thought I would strike up the conversation about my lodge being a moon lodge. That led to the discussion with the SW and WM about our members having to keep track of when our stated meetings were since they fell on irregular dates. I told them our secretary gave every member a copy of the dates of our stated meeting. I then proceeded to show the SW and WM my dues card and the card with our stated meeting dates on it. I have used this approach a couple of times when I visit a lodge where I am unknown. The best way to avoid this situation is to visit other lodges. Eventually you will get to where there is usually someone at the lodge you visit that can vouch for you.

 

[Wingnut]

OK- time for a pop quiz: a Brother who claims to be a member of your Lodge wishes to enter. No one in the Lodge can state that they have ever sat in Lodge with him. Does he get in or not and, if he does, how? First correct answer gets a :beer:!

Dues card and ID... Shiner please :beer::texasg:

 

[rhitland]

With a picture ID and current dues card yes and if he forgot his dues card I will check with Sec and see if he is paid up and if he is then cool I will let him in but if he is not payed up then he must pay or go. If he forgot his Picture ID he does not get in either unless he has a recognizable picture on the wall and that satisfies my lodge Brothers as it would me.

 

[rhitland]

crap Wing beat me, I take a Schiltz if your still buying.

 

[Bill Lins]

Dues card and ID... Shiner please :beer::texasg:

Sorry, sir- you cannot examine a member of your own Lodge. Thank you for playing- please try again!

 

[Bill Lins]

With a picture ID and current dues card yes and if he forgot his dues card I will check with Sec and see if he is paid up and if he is then cool I will let him in but if he is not payed up then he must pay or go. If he forgot his Picture ID he does not get in either unless he has a recognizable picture on the wall and that satisfies my lodge Brothers as it would me.

Nope. Thanks for playing! :biggrin:

 

[Bill Lins]

Y'all give up?

 

[HKTidwell]

I haven't made it through the entire 468 pages, ran out of whiskey.

 

[Bill Lins]

ran out of whiskey.

I HATE when that happens!

 

[LRG]

OK- time for a pop quiz: a Brother who claims to be a member of your Lodge wishes to enter. No one in the Lodge can state that they have ever sat in Lodge with him. Does he get in or not and, if he does, how?

First correct answer gets a :beer:!

Too easy for me.

You go to the Sec/Def.
If a brother claims to be apart of the same blue lodge, the secretary will have to research, to verify.
You can not examine the same member of the lodge.

I'll take a Makers 7

 

[Traveling Man]

OK- time for a pop quiz: a Brother who claims to be a member of your Lodge wishes to enter. No one in the Lodge can state that they have ever sat in Lodge with him. Does he get in or not and, if he does, how?

First correct answer gets a :beer:!

You can keep you beer. How about you show your dues card; just like I did to the Master of the lodge? VBG

 

[Bill Lins]

We have a winner! You get a :beer:! You go through the avouchment process in Lodge (SW not satisfied) & the Secretary vouches for the Brother. As TM said, the Brother could voluntarily show his dues card, but to require him to do so is considered tantamount to examination, which you cannot do. BTW, even if he showed his card, you would still have to go through the avouchment process, as the SW could not state that he had ever sat in Lodge with the Brother.

OK, now Part II- who, besides a member of your own Lodge, can you NOT examine? Be careful- there are certain conditions involved.

 

[rhitland]

Wow I did not know we could not look at a Brothers dues card from our own Lodge to verify he was current, GL laws at there best but I bet they have a good reason!! Well I guees I need to crack that blue book and do some research.

 

[Bryan]

Could a Lodge member remain unsatisfied even if a visitor provided proper ID and dues card?

In Louisiana if a brother should not be satisfied with another.. then it becomes the duty of the WM to have both men escorted out of the lodge. That is the law of the GL of Louisiana.

 

[Wingnut]

We have a winner! You get a :beer:! You go through the avouchment process in Lodge (SW not satisfied) & the Secretary vouches for the Brother. As TM said, the Brother could voluntarily show his dues card, but to require him to do so is considered tantamount to examination, which you cannot do. BTW, even if he showed his card, you would still have to go through the avouchment process, as the SW could not state that he had ever sat in Lodge with the Brother.

Have you got a source? I know this is about to come up and our secretarys records are... well, sketchy. I know for a fact that many lodges havent suspended members for NPD in several years, which frankly is hurting the lodge since we are still having to pay returns on them...

 

[Bill Lins]

My source on this is R:.W:. Sessums of the Committee on Work. I was in the same situation as you when I took over as Secretary 5 years ago- we were carrying 10 or so "Brothers" who were not packing their own weight. We simply couldn't afford to carry them any more. :-( One of them has since gotten straight and is now an endowed member, one has died, & the rest did not respond & wound up suspended NPD.