Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

[Rifleman1776]

Arkansas Masonic law states no member can be the owner or manager of a business that sell alcohol. Like it or not that is the law. Unfortunately, it has been misinterpreted and misapplied to any person employed in an business that deals with alcohol.

 

[Ripcord22A]

A number of jurisdictions still have a prohibition on tavern keepers.

That's the dumbest thing...we used to meet in taverns!

 

[Ripcord22A]

Arkansas Masonic law states no member can be the owner or manager of a business that sell alcohol. Like it or not that is the law. Unfortunately, it has been misinterpreted and misapplied to any person employed in an business that deals with alcohol.

Wait so if i live in Ark i can't manage an applebees or a Wal_Mart and be a mason? Well what else can i expect from the state that brought us bill clinton

 

[Rifleman1776]

Wait so if i live in Ark i can't manage an applebees or a Wal_Mart and be a mason? Well what else can i expect from the state that brought us bill clinton

Yep. Dumb. But that is the law. It goes way back to the day of blue laws. Some die hards of old time religion still feel that way. And, for many decades they have been the ones in charge. Meaning, the Grand line. No change is expected in the foreseable future. Sadly.

 

[Pscyclepath]

Yep. Dumb. But that is the law. It goes way back to the day of blue laws. Some die hards of old time religion still feel that way. And, for many decades they have been the ones in charge. Meaning, the Grand line. No change is expected in the foreseable future. Sadly.

You can't be a manger of or work in a business whose primary purpose is the sale or marketing of alcohol. So, it's okay to be a clerk or checker at Wal-Mart or Kum&Go, which sell beer, run you can't work in a liquor or package store, or a bar.

It goes back to the early 20's, when the Grand Master was Carl Thornburg, author of the old "Thornburg Monitor." Mrs Thornburg was the regional head of the Women's Christian Temperance Union, so lodges stayed dry even after the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, and have stayed bone dry ever since, to include this silly rule, in Grand Master Thornburg's memory.

If I remember rightly, AR and KY are the two remaining Prohibition grand lodges.

 

[Ripcord22A]

So a brother loses his job...looks everywhere abd the only thing he can find is a bartender, it pays the bills and keeps his family with a roof over their heads food I the fridge ect ect....Your GL would rather them go hungry and homeless then start work

 

[cacarter]

the only thing he can find is a bartender

Rifleman1776 stated that only owners and managers are excluded, so I would assume being a bartender would technically be okay. And also, I'd say that what the Grand Lodge doesn't know, doesn't hurt it.

 

[MBC]

Arkansas Masonic law states no member can be the owner or manager of a business that sell alcohol. Like it or not that is the law. Unfortunately, it has been misinterpreted and misapplied to any person employed in an business that deals with alcohol.

With all dues of respect of all the brethren there, this is a non-sense regulation.(sorry that I think it is more appropriate to say it's a regulation rather than law but that's not the point)
As my brother said before, we were meet in taverns and pubs and some are still meeting there within UGLE. Also we have members owning taverns and pubs. One of the pubs in Wales is even called "Square and Compasses".
Then I would suggest the GL of Arkansa revoke the recognition of UGLE because we meet in taverns and pubs and we have an indissoluble link between alcohol and us. Almost every masons in here will have alcohols in Festive Board here.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Arkansas Masonic law states no member can be the owner or manager of a business that sell alcohol. Like it or not that is the law. Unfortunately, it has been misinterpreted and misapplied to any person employed in an business that deals with alcohol.

Bro. Cacarter he said it's been misinterpreted to apply to all persona employed in alcohol establishments

 

[Rifleman1776]

With all dues of respect of all the brethren there, this is a non-sense regulation.(sorry that I think it is more appropriate to say it's a regulation rather than law but that's not the point)
As my brother said before, we were meet in taverns and pubs and some are still meeting there within UGLE. Also we have members owning taverns and pubs. One of the pubs in Wales is even called "Square and Compasses".
Then I would suggest the GL of Arkansa revoke the recognition of UGLE because we meet in taverns and pubs and we have an indissoluble link between alcohol and us. Almost every masons in here will have alcohols in Festive Board here.

Bro MBC, I agree with you. However, the the southernn states in America have had a long history of being anti-alcohol. Many laws used to be on the books (for everyone, not Masons only) that prohibited alcohol sales. The no-alcohol thing for Arkansas Masons is a carry-over from that. And many people in our state, and others, still belong to churches that are very anti-alcohol. The problem with the Arkansas Grand Line is most a close friends from the area near Little Rock and share those same beliefs. Unlikely much, if anything, will change for a couple more generations.

 

[Pscyclepath]

I was reading an old reprinted journal ("Brother Brother's Journal, ed. by Michael Halloran, published by Macoy's) this past weekend, and came upon one of Brother's quotes from the late 1910s, "There's nothing wrong with Freemasonry that a few funerals couldn't fix." ;-)

 

[MBC]

Bro MBC, I agree with you. However, the the southernn states in America have had a long history of being anti-alcohol. Many laws used to be on the books (for everyone, not Masons only) that prohibited alcohol sales. The no-alcohol thing for Arkansas Masons is a carry-over from that. And many people in our state, and others, still belong to churches that are very anti-alcohol. The problem with the Arkansas Grand Line is most a close friends from the area near Little Rock and share those same beliefs. Unlikely much, if anything, will change for a couple more generations.

If you all American brethren came to UGLE lodges, you would surprised how much alcohols they drank in the Festive Board... It's huge loads!

 

[MarkR]

I was reading an old reprinted journal ("Brother Brother's Journal, ed. by Michael Halloran, published by Macoy's) this past weekend, and came upon one of Brother's quotes from the late 1910s, "There's nothing wrong with Freemasonry that a few funerals couldn't fix." ;-)

Just FYI, the Brother Brother's Journal articles are written by M.W.Bro. Halloran. They're not really from the early 20th Century.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you all American brethren came to UGLE lodges, you would surprised how much alcohols they drank in the Festive Board... It's huge loads!

I lived in England for three years but wasn't a Mason at the time. Wish I had been. But rest assured, I had my favorite pub and consumed my share of beer.

 

[RiverRatDoc]

Post deleted by me.

I deleted it, because in the end, the circle around my point does not allow me to affect GL or Imperial relations, or decisions.

I remind ALL who are duly obligated MM's to remember your MM Obligation. That forms the BASIS for all things Masonic in your walk.

The only hesitation I have is that Lodge business is tyled & confidential. Temple meetings are under a double & trusted guard and the Oasis therein is secure.

To really discuss this publicly is to invite ourselves to violate our own integrity & possibly commit Masonic offense or violate Shrine Law.

That's WHY I deleted it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

"
There's much I see wrong in FreeMasonry, but change happens bottom up."

You posted many words above and are obviously proud of your Masonic participation.
The "bottom up" approach, so far, has accomplished nothing towards solving the mess in Arkansas. Succeding Arkansas WGMs are cookie cutter copies of their predecessors. Much Masonic law has been ignored and (mis)interpreted to suit the wishes of the GM. e.g. the alcohol issue. How do you propose to change things in Arkansas back to true Masonic brotherhood?

 

[RiverRatDoc]

My basic obligation is to support my GL. When I cross over onto AR GL jurisdiction, I leave my Fez at the border.

I'm deleting my post. You're right, I do have 'skin in the game'. I know a lot more about what occurred in the '90's' & this latest 'country club' incident.

But my first OB is to the degrees I took in my Symbolic Lodge.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My basic obligation is to support my GL. When I cross over onto AR GL jurisdiction, I leave my Fez at the border.

I'm deleting my post. You're right, I do have 'skin in the game'. I know a lot more about what occurred in the '90's' & this latest 'country club' incident.

But my first OB is to the degrees I took in my Symbolic Lodge.

Your choice but definitely a weird one. Arkansas GM says you cannot be Shriner and an Arkansas MM at the same time, no matter where your fez is parked. Example of "strange": I am one of many Arkansas residents who now have Misssouri lodge membership and am also a Shriner. A new Mason, and Shriner, recently moved into Arkansas from another jurisdiction where his Lodge is. Arkansas GL is blocking his petition to join our Missouri Lodge because he now resides in Arkansas. Somebody please clarify for me: How is that Masonic Brotherly love?

 

[dfreybur]

A new Mason, and Shriner, recently moved into Arkansas from another jurisdiction where his Lodge is. Arkansas GL is blocking his petition to join our Missouri Lodge because he now resides in Arkansas.

Depending on cable tow rules, it is likely that GLofAR has no power to block the petition. Usual cable tow rules say that a candidate may petition any lodge in a 50 mile radius of his home without any other lodge being able to object, though the number of miles varies jurisdiction to jurisdiction. It is often a tradition not a formal ruling.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is nothing "usual" about Arkansas Masonic law. The jurisdiction is the entire state. They may be able to block it.