Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

[RiverRatDoc]

I haven't found the section dealing with 'plural' yet.
No! I wouldn't "..just make definitions up" brother. Egad!

 

[RiverRatDoc]

I have discovered on looking at 6 states, their definitions differ.

Of the 6 so far, half use the definition 'dual' to refer to membership in two or more lodges in same jurisdiction. Plural being membership in two Jurisdictions.

The other half use plural to denote double membership in same jurisdiction & dual as membership in 2 jurisdictions.

Admittedly after spending some hours, flipping pages, my eyes & brain are saturated.

I think R:.W:. Cook, that is what you were wanting me to uncover specifically.

 

[dfreybur]

Of the 6 so far, half use the definition 'dual' to refer to membership in two or more lodges in same jurisdiction. Plural being membership in two Jurisdictions.

For even more fun, some jurisdictions use the word multiple as well as dual or instead of dual.

Being a member in 3 jurisdictions I'm called plural. In Illinois I am a member of 2 lodges so there I am called multiple rather than your cited dual.

 

[Glen Cook]

I have discovered on looking at 6 states, their definitions differ.

Of the 6 so far, half use the definition 'dual' to refer to membership in two or more lodges in same jurisdiction. Plural being membership in two Jurisdictions.

The other half use plural to denote double membership in same jurisdiction & dual as membership in 2 jurisdictions.

Admittedly after spending some hours, flipping pages, my eyes & brain are saturated.

I think R:.W:. Cook, that is what you were wanting me to uncover specifically.

Thanks, but I'm not RW. I appreciate your effort, but I was asking for citation. That means a code or law section,much as Utah, Title 5. Section 2, or the like.

But I think you've spent sufficient time on the subject and that we're agreed: there is no commonly accepted definition of plural and dual memberships.

 

[RiverRatDoc]

Thank you for the gentle push. I specifically chose not to overtly cite which Juris I was leaning on, (for the casual reader, the Cowan, or the obligated instigators). I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to perform due diligence & suss out where I'm currently at. I'm not embarrassed, but I conversely know I am in no capacity to speak officially for my state.
I am in a capacity to speak to Shrine related matters, being one of the 5 principle officers in my temple (yet even there, I have to represent my Temple & local Association ).
It's easier to refer to rules in SI. (albeit, there's two 3 ring binders on my desk-- BATS manual w/ updated rulings on CD's annually. It is almost like our Federal tax code).

 

[Glen Cook]

I view it somewhat differently: by not citing to code in making your declaration as to definitions, you are setting yourself up as an authority in the jurisdiction. Those experienced in Masonic jurisprudence recommend citation to resolve matters, and not opinion. Additionally, we know you don't have authority to speak for your jurisdiction, and we know who does.

As to your Shrine office, I would urge caution in interpreting Shrine law, particularly as a junior officer. On an Internet discussion, I am hard pressed to do other than cite to the bylaws or correct facts within my knowledge.

 

[Warrior1256]

Is there anything new on this matter between the GL of Arkansas and the Shrine?

 

[chrmc]

No. All the stuff currently going on has to do with internal GL of Arkansas politics and the present GM trying to purge the line of people he doesn't like.
Chris Hodapp has some good overviews on his blog.

 

[Warrior1256]

No. All the stuff currently going on has to do with internal GL of Arkansas politics and the present GM trying to purge the line of people he doesn't like.
Chris Hodapp has some good overviews on his blog.

Yeah, I've read some of these. I was just curious as to whether the GL and Shrine were still at odds or had reconciled. I couldn't find anything current that mentions it.

 

[chrmc]

They still don't get along. Think the GL of Arkansas doesn't have many friends presently.

 

[Warrior1256]

They still don't get along. Think the GL of Arkansas doesn't have many friends presently.

From what I've been reading that certainly seems to be the case.

 

[XUSMICO]

Recently, This year something BIG happened re: a letter from the AAONMS in SC and the SCGL. GM ordered all AAONMS letters received by Blue Lodges to be forwarded to GL, Masters and Secretaries ordered to not discuss it. Period. IMHO, AAONMS (I was a member for 20 years but became disaffected with the partying, active recruitment into the BL for entry into Shrine, ect.) has become a political, alcohol fueled self serving organization existing for member good old boy pandering. Clubs making money that never goes to the hospital, but used for parties. The unrivaled immoral debauchery at conventions. The more money a member has, the more support given and received for personal gain exists. Having witnessed it first had. A direct conflict with Masonic edicts. I am particularly disgusted with the hierarchy illustrated in Masonic Bibles using the S&C. blue lodge on the bottom. York and SR on the compasses leading to the joint, implying the apendent bodies are superior to the Blue Lodge, AAONMS being the supreme organization. It is time for a clean cut.
I have angered the hornets, now the wrath will follow me. So be it I, I only speak the truth as I personally witnessed it.

Please keep replies civil.

 

[Glen Cook]

Recently, This year something BIG happened re: a letter from the AAONMS in SC and the SCGL. GM ordered all AAONMS letters received by Blue Lodges to be forwarded to GL, Masters and Secretaries ordered to not discuss it. Period. IMHO, AAONMS (I was a member for 20 years but became disaffected with the partying, active recruitment into the BL for entry into Shrine, ect.) has become a political, alcohol fueled self serving organization existing for member good old boy pandering. Clubs making money that never goes to the hospital, but used for parties. The unrivaled immoral debauchery at conventions. The more money a member has, the more support given and received for personal gain exists. Having witnessed it first had. A direct conflict with Masonic edicts. I am particularly disgusted with the hierarchy illustrated in Masonic Bibles using the S&C. blue lodge on the bottom. York and SR on the compasses leading to the joint, implying the apendent bodies are superior to the Blue Lodge, AAONMS being the supreme organization. It is time for a clean cut.
I have angered the hornets, now the wrath will follow me. So be it I, I only speak the truth as I personally witnessed it.

Please keep replies civil.

I cannot address letters purportedly received by Lodges. Apparently it is a violation in your GL. It would not be in mine.

I am considered an active Shriner. I don’t drink. I’ve attended 21 Imperial Sessions. My wife has come to all but two of them, as I remember. I don’t engage in debauchery.

If you have seen Masons engage in this activity, I’m sure you will have filed Masonic charges against them.

I assure you, the weeks of legal services I’ve to the Shrine serving on Grievances and Appeals for two decades had not resulted in personal gain.

I agree that the privately produced picture is inaccurate. I wouldn’t use the word “disgust.” I’m sure you have taken action to ensure your Grand Lodge no longer uses that edition of the Bible (not all Masonic editions contain that drawing).

 

[XUSMICO]

Thank you for the kind reply. The problem is the Shriners in the Blue lodge and the Shrine it self lean heavily towards protecting their own. I did try and hold several accountable. First personally, addressing each Brother individually and in private. What I was told cannot be repeated. I was told in private, by Brothers who put their Shrine above the Lodge again cannot be repeated. In short, to stop making waves and leave them alone. That's when I knew the Shrine was not for me. There are good men, like yourself, but once the bad out number the good, things get bad. No matter how hard the good ones fight back, the numbers win. My Lodge had past Potentates and one sitting Potentate. They had words with me and the meaning was clear.

 

[Glen Cook]

Luckily, the situation you describe does not exist everywhere.

And luckily, I am not in a position where I need to worry about making waves. I just get out my surf board.

 

[jermy Bell]

Don't know where I'm at with this. Most join to become a shriner, and you never see them back in a blue lodge, except for attending a 3rd degree, so they can recruit for the Shrine. I find this just a waste of time to do the ritual for someone that will never come back to lodge.

 

[Glen Cook]

Don't know where I'm at with this. Most join to become a shriner, and you never see them back in a blue lodge, except for attending a 3rd degree, so they can recruit for the Shrine. I find this just a waste of time to do the ritual for someone that will never come back to lodge.

Yet, those members pay dues that fund Lodges and keep building doors open. Many Shrine groups meet in lodge buildings and pay rent.

I suggest part of the issue is that in US Freemasonry we largely place no expectations or requirements in attending lodge. Indeed, in some rituals we are “asked “ to come on “convenient “ occasions.

Another issue may be the frequency with which some US lodges meet: 22-40 times a year. I wouldn’t go to all those meetings either.

 

[Scoops]

Another issue may be the frequency with which some US lodges meet: 22-40 times a year. I wouldn’t go to all those meetings either.

22-40 meetings? Blimey! Is that actual open lodge meetings or does it include rehearsals and committees?

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[jermy Bell]

We have 2 meetings a month for 12 months. Not including degree work each month, which could be 1- 3 x's a week. And I usually sit in the lodge I was raised in, for business meetings 2xs a month.

 

[Glen Cook]

22-40 meetings? Blimey! Is that actual open lodge meetings or does it include rehearsals and committees?

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My Oklahoma lodge has 24 meetings. See also Brother Bell’s response. One of my Utah lodges meets 10 x year plus degree meetings.