Some Religious Questions

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by Blake Bowden, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    If you had not already answered the way you did I would have so I will just say "What he said"!
     
  2. Frater Cliff Porter

    Frater Cliff Porter Premium Member

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    1. What would happen if you died today? If you believe that you have a Spirit, where would it go?

    I would probably be more relaxed. Yes I have a spirit. Don't have a clue what happens. Hoping for reincarnation.

    2. What would happen to those who are of a different religion than your own? (Refer to question 1)

    I am guessing the same for all, but again, comfortable not knowing.

    3. According to your beliefs, what happens if a person never knew God?

    Don't know, don't worry about it. That is between them and God.

    4. Did the Supreme Architect create evil?

    If I had to guess, I would say humans created evil lol, but that God is aware.

    5. If the Supreme Architect did not create evil, where did it originate?

    Again, not sure, and comfortable not knowing.
    6. If the Devil/Lucifer/Iblis was banished from Heaven, what was the reason? Does that mean sin exists in Heaven?

    I don't believe this story is literal at all.

    7. If sin already existed before Adam and Eve...(fill in the blank)

    Adam and Eva are fictional, but important, characters in an allegory. So, yes, evil existed before the author made them up because evil is in the story.
     
  3. Pointwithinacircle

    Pointwithinacircle Registered User

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    1. What would happen if you died today? If you believe that you have a Spirit, where would it go?
    Perhaps the spirit was never "mine" anymore than the sunlight which falls upon me is "mine". Perhaps spirit is energy. When I unplug a light the electrical energy does not "Go" anywhere, it simply waits for a new conduit.
    2. What would happen to those who are of a different religion than your own? (Refer to question 1)
    All people are the same. To think that what I believe forces God to treat me differently than others seems a little egotistical to me.
    3. According to your beliefs, what happens if a person never knew God?
    Two flowers were planted in a garden. One flower understood the concept of soil, and the other did not. Both flowers grew pretty well.
    4. Did the Supreme Architect create evil?
    God created everything. Only man passes judgement on God's creations, calling some good and some evil.
    5. If the Supreme Architect did not create evil, where did it originate?
    See answer four
    6. If the Devil/Lucifer/Iblis was banished from Heaven, what was the reason? Does that mean sin exists in Heaven?
    Banishment sounds like the consequences of a choice to me. All things exist in Heaven, that is what makes it perfect.
    7. If sin already existed before Adam and Eve...(fill in the blank)

    Then what we have is a parable.
     
  4. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    My beliefs...

    1. The "blinders" imposed upon my awareness by this physical experience would no longer exist. To suggest that my spirit would "go" somewhere would be to make unwarranted presumptions about the nature of spirit and awareness. It would be different.

    2. Religions are a worldly invention. One's chosen beliefs have almost nothing to do with what happens when we die. The nature of our spirit, our "character" if you will, may have a great deal to do with that.

    3. "Knowing" deity is a notion that is presumptuous in the extreme. An earnest pursuit of that knowledge, on the other hand, is one of the things that we are here to do. How we comport ourselves in that pursuit is what matters, I believe.

    4. There is no such thing as evil.

    5. See above

    6. Sin is a largely Christian construct, the breaking of what someone has alleged to be "God's law". Love, on the other hand, or the absence of it, is very real. It is what really matters. It has been said that in the afterlife, the only pain we know is for the love we hold back in in this life. That's a pretty good rule and guide, IMHO.

    7. Unsupported premise, therefor conjecture is meaningless.
     
  5. brother josh

    brother josh Registered User

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    U seem like a brother that is a man of reason very informative


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  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I've heard mystics report that "it all gets worked out in the hereafter". The trouble with mystical experiences is they are all subjective only experienced by one person at a time and each such experience unique.

    On the one hand it certainly goes against the teachings of several religions but as you say religions are a worldly invention. On the other hand whatever happens has to "work" independent of the faith of the person who died. Reason says it needs to work independent of religion or religious teaching, but there's no rule I know of that says mystical experiences have to follow reason.

    Seeing if I can work this out based on mystical experiences that I have had, not that I expect anyone to believe my statements or accept my conclusion just to say if it works for me -

    Have you ever had the feeling that the spirit if a dead relative is watching over you, or do you know someone who has reported that? Great Grandma's spirit used to check in on me regularly. She didn't stop when I settled into my current sect. I'm okay with the idea that "it all gets worked out in the hereafter" based on this. I'm certain it is meaningless to anyone but me and I'm okay with that as well.
     
  7. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    ...and faith. Masons must be both. :biggrin:
    Thank you, Brother. I am pleased that you found it useful.
     
  8. rebis

    rebis Premium Member

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    Isaiah 45:7 KJV

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."




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  9. vangoedenaam

    vangoedenaam Premium Member

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    He might have been kidding or misquoted. Im not so sure a book thats been through google translate for 2 centuries, and not counting a lot of papal censureship, is a very reliable historical source of information in these matters. But thats just me.


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  10. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    The KJV is the LAST place anyone should go for exegesis (well, almost the last). Once again, we run into the problem that the English of 1611 is not English as we use it today. The Hebrew word translated as "evil" was translated properly in 1611. In 1611, the English word "evil" did NOT just mean "moral evil". It also meant "misfortune", "bad", "very unpleasant", "distasteful", etc. Moral evil was only one of its potential meanings. Thus, in both Hebrew and 1611 English, it was not referring to moral evil in this particular instance. Since light and darkness are opposites, extending the poetic structure would suggest that "chaos" or "misfortune" would be a better opposition to "peace" in meaning than the modern exclusively moral meaning of evil.

    Honestly, the KJV is a work of magnificent poetry. I adore it. I never use it for exegesis here in the 21st century. It's a terrible source for exegesis. Over 500 years ago, it was an excellent translation. It's now 500 years later. The English language has changed since then. After all, no sane person insists that "unicorns" must exist merely because they are mentioned in the KJV, right?
     
  11. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Both of the claims you make about the KJV are simply flat-out wrong.
    1: Except for modernizations of spelling, the KJV is the same translation it was roughly 500 years ago.
    2: The Pope of Rome had nothing at all to do with the KJV.

    If you are talking about the Bible in general, you're still flat-out wrong.
    1: The age of the KJV aside, more modern translations are not merely "google translate". They are done using the best methods of the day.
    2: Hello, I'm an Orthodox Christian. The Pope of Rome has never had ANYTHING to do with our Scriptural tradition, not even since the office was created. Contrary to the propaganda of Westernists, there is a whole thread of Christianity that was never beneath the Pope of Rome, and we're not some obscure little Gnostic group.
     
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  12. vangoedenaam

    vangoedenaam Premium Member

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    Im not going to get dragged into an insolvable argument here. So lets stick to facts

    The King James Bible translation isnt of orthodox origin.
    All major forms of Christianity that did not schism from the papal side of things before it became papal are therefore a direct descendent of that tradition which includes all forms of protestantism, which started with luther. So im not talking orthodox, gnostic or koptic here.

    The bible has been translated a lot of times and scholars agree that many mistakes have been made along the line. Some intentionally as certain jnterpretations would fit the church politics of the times. I agree that it isnt fair to the hardworking translators to compare that with the google machinery, but it sort of makes the same point.

    Facts.

    In the area of 'belief' we could argue about the original writings being human or divine, we may argue about all the 'it sais this but it means that'-exegesis variants. Im not getting into that argument.

    Im not trying to start a riot. But as another comment above already clearly said: the KJV isnt the best resource for exegesis.

    And as always: my personal opininion, not approved or endorced by any other than me.


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  13. vangoedenaam

    vangoedenaam Premium Member

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    Oh, i see my typing mistake in my earlier post. I meant to type 20 centuries of google translate, not 2. Silly me.


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  14. rebis

    rebis Premium Member

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    One of my lodge brothers...a very old fart, war vet and retired police officer said that he was clinically dead for over two minutes according to his surgeon, before being revived. He said that while "dead" there was nothing, just a lapse in his memory.
    No white light no god no devil no bliss... Nothing. He said it was as if he did not exist... Just like when first born.


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  15. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Therefore, does that mean that you are of the opinion that Freemasons MUST reject Christianity?
     
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  16. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    As far as questions numbers 1, 2, and 3. I am a Christian and I believe that the Bible is the literal inspired word of God which explicitly answers these questions.

    For questions 4, 5, 6, and 7, I believe that evil was not created but is inherent. I believe that it is what exist in the absence of God. When Satan turned on God, he was no longer in God's grace and therefore his actions were inherently evil.
     
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  17. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    If I were to say something to my six-year-old son, and he wanted to remember it, he'd do his best, but he would probably not present a perfect picture. Which translation of the Bible is the "literal inspired word of God"? What if the translations differ? Which manuscript tradition is the "literal inspired word of God"? Just trying to pin that down so we all know which one to follow in a completely "literal" sense and there is no more possibility of confusion.

    What is "inherent"? Do you mean "uncreated"? If it is "uncreated", then evil is God for any Christian, since, in Christian cosmogeny, God is the only Uncreated, eternal, without beginning, without creation, without end.
     
  18. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    I am not trying to get caught up in the translation issues. The meanings, with minor variations, are the same. As far as "uncreated" I don't know how you stretched "inherent" that far but no. That's not what it means.
     
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  19. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    If you spend the time and effort to really look, you will find that this is patently untrue.
     
  20. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Then what does "inherent" mean?
     

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