Some Religious Questions

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by Blake Bowden, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    We'll my good Brothers. This why we don't talk about religion in the lodge. I was willing to state my personal beliefs because the question was asked. But if you want to continue to try to tear at my beliefs that's ok.
    As far as inherent Brother Bryan, being a learned man, you should know that there are things in science that cannot exist without an opposite. For example. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is inherent.
    As far as substantial differences between the versions of the Bible. I have researched the Greek and English translations. And the differences between the English translations. Yes there are changes in the meanings but they are not substantial to the overall whole of the message of the Bible.
     
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  2. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Actually, the "equal and opposite reaction" thing doesn't necessarily exist in all cases, not when you get down to the quantum level. For example, light can break Newton's 3rd Law under certain circumstances. Thus, we are again needing a definition of "inherent" that applies to evil. Are you saying that God is incomplete without evil? If evil must exist because God cannot exist without evil existing, then that means that evil is necessary for the existence of God, thus God must depend upon something that is not Him to maintain His existence.
     
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  3. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    Evil was/is a cancer !!!


    Bro Book
    M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
    Excelsior # 43
    At pensacola
     
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  4. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    Brother Brian. You seem to be reading a lot into what I'm saying. It's not the question of can exist it's a question of does it exist. Does evil exist? Yes. Did evil exist in heaven? Yes. Satan's rebellion towards God was evil.
     
  5. rebis

    rebis Premium Member

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    ...and that is the quintessential base of all truth.

    Thank you Bro. Cajun for the courage of sharing such pearls of truth.


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  6. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Sorry, but that just is not true. Even the most cursory trip through Google's suggestions for "bible translation errors" will make that plain. There are, as one would expect in a volume with such a long history, a great many errors in any given contemporary version of the xtian bible. But let's set that aside, and confine our discussion to just those "contemporary" English editions. Let us further confine our discussion to those editions purporting to be the KJV. You have stipulated that while they may be subtle, there are differences. So which one is the complete, true, and unerring word of god, then? Says who, and by what authority? By your own admission, you are willing to judge literal differences as inconsequential. I say that's fine, but to suggest that everyone will arrive at the same conclusions you have is naive, dangerously so, because people tend to get testy when confronted with a conflicting view of what "god" meant. In other words, the only inviolate "truth" in anything transcribed and printed by humans is in how we interpret this or that passage when we read it. Such is the nature of spiritual things. Insisting that it is otherwise is a recipe for disharmony.
     
  7. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    [QUOTE="In other words, the only inviolate "truth" in anything transcribed and printed by humans is in how we interpret this or that passage when we read it. Such is the nature of spiritual things. Insisting that it is otherwise is a recipe for disharmony."[/QUOTE]


    Again, this is why we don't discuss religion in the lodge. But if you ask me what I believe I will tell you. If you think my answer could possibly create disharmony then it would probably be better not to ask the question. My beliefs are my beliefs. I stand by them. You have your own beliefs which is the way it should be. Each to their own. Peace and harmony.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
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  8. vangoedenaam

    vangoedenaam Premium Member

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    Separation of religion and state is aimed at the same prevention of disharmony. Religion must remain a private thing. Same in lodge. Private beliefs can be shared and compared but not be 'discussed' or 'debated'. I think its a good thing as it makes ppl of different faith equal, allowing us to remain on the level.


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  9. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Again, this is why we don't discuss religion and the lodge. But if ask me what I believe I will tell you. If you think my answer could possibly create disharmony then it would probably be better not to ask the question. My beliefs are my beliefs. I stand by them. You have your own beliefs which is the way it should be. Each to their own. Peace and harmony.[/QUOTE]


    Your explanation of "inherent" was that some things cannot exist without an opposite. Therefore, if that is what you mean, then you mean that God cannot exist without evil.
     
  10. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    You are still missing the point.
    We have stipulated that each of us is entitled to his beliefs, and that no Mason should take issue with another's belief. Spiritual truth is what we believe it is.
    The accuracy of this or that translation of a particular piece of literature, on the other hand, is not a matter of belief. It is a fact, discoverable and knowable. While there is often room for debate about the details, the fact of the matter is that the differences and inconsistencies are plainly real. You asserted that they were not. That's not a statement of belief. "I believe x, because my chosen book says x is so..." is a statement of belief and as such, is unassailable. "I believe that x means the same as y...", not so much.
     
  11. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    Then can you elaborate on what you feel are the complete and utter changes to the meanings of the messages contained in the variations of the recognized standard versions of the Bible.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  12. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    Your explanation of "inherent" was that some things cannot exist without an opposite. Therefore, if that is what you mean, then you mean that God cannot exist without evil.[/QUOTE]


    I never said that he cannot. I said that evil does exist. Can you explain with certainty how it came about. Or do you have an opinion like I do.
     
  13. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    May I ask, my good Brother, if are you attempting to assert that the Book of my faith is in error and that because my faith is predicated on its teachings, then my beliefs are false? Is that what you're attempting to say?

    Or is it as in Masonry, where you can travel from state to state and find that the wording within the ritual work will vary, but the meaning in the message stays the same.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  14. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    I never said that he cannot. I said that evil does exist. Can you explain with certainty how it came about. Or do you have an opinion like I do.[/QUOTE]

    You said that evil is "inherent"--you word.
    You then tried to explain "inherent" by stating that some things CANNOT exist without their opposites. Therefore, you are saying that God CANNOT exist without evil, meaning that God NEEDS evil.
     
  15. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    Whoa cowboy. Your stretching this way to far. I do stick by what I said. I also said that what exist in the absence of God is evil.

    Wherever there is light, there cannot be darkness. If light is withdrawn from anywhere, that place becomes dark. Darkness was not created. Light was created. Darkness is inherent because it exist in the absence of light.

    Do you feel that God created evil? If so, for what reason? And if not, where did it come from?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  16. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    In that case, darkness is not "inherent", darkness is merely a "tautology". Two very different meanings. I have already stated on this thread what I consider to be the origin of evil, feel free to read it. I stated it clearly.
     
  17. gwardell

    gwardell Registered User

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    True, and each person may interpret a similar experience differently, and one person experiencing the same thing twice, separated by time, may also interpret it differently.

    I think that is the essence of a mystical experience.


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  18. CajunTinMan

    CajunTinMan Registered User

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    So you're saying that evil created itself? Or, are you saying that evil was created by man? Both would be impossible.

    "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him" Colossians 1:16

    So where did it come from?

    "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things." Isaiah 45:7

    So, we have established that it was created by God. But why?

    "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5.

    I believe it was "inherently" created with the light. It is the darkness when there is no light. Again, I believe it is the absence of God.

    It's not "tautology".
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  19. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Not in the least. If you had taken the time to actually read and understand my posts, that much would be clear.
    To repeat myself yet again, matters of faith are not in question here. You assertions that words with differing meanings "all mean the same thing", on the other hand, is. How you resolve those inconsistencies is for you and you alone to decide.
     
  20. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    No, I am saying that evil does not have a positive existence. Evil is not a thing. Light exists. Darkness does not. Darknes is merely what a limited mind calls "absence of light". However, light DOES NOT REQUIRE DARKNESS TO EXIST. They are not mutually "inherent". If evil is created, as you say it was, then who created it? I say that it was not created. Darkness is not a thing. It is the lack of a thing. Light does not require darkness to exist. You stated that evil vs. God is just like the Third Law of Newton--and in that case BOTH forces require the other to exist. Thus, you stated that God requires evil to exist.
     

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