To my Christian Brethren, what are your thoughts?
[video=youtube;hlNx7m1KW7Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlNx7m1KW7Y[/video]
Genesis 1:31
"And God saw every thing that he had made , and, behold, it was very good..."
This includes man...made in his own image (Or their own image, since Elohim is plural)
One cannot subdue passions or keep within bounds if those boundaries are not defined
I disagree, and I offer as proof my atheist friends, who are among the most "moral" people I know. They do the right thing simply because it's the right thing, not because they're following some arbitrary "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" list. And certainly not out of fear of some gruesome fiery punishment.
Tell me, which person is more "moral", the one who acts out of fear of punishment or the one who proactively chooses to do the right thing?
I disagree, and I offer as proof my atheist friends, who are among the most "moral" people I know. They do the right thing simply because it's the right thing, not because they're following some arbitrary "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" list. And certainly not out of fear of some gruesome fiery punishment.
Tell me, which person is more "moral", the one who acts out of fear of punishment or the one who proactively chooses to do the right thing?
Therein lies the crux of my argument. You have placed the word moral in quotation marks. That is the very definition of the moral relativism of which I am speaking. I would assert that both are moral, regardless of the whether the motivation is extrinsic or intrinsic. If your atheist friends are moral, that is wonderful; however, that does not put them right with a God in which they do not believe. From a Christian perspective, which is the specific religion to which this thread was posed, they are doomed regardless of their morality or disbelief.
Even so, there is actually no motivation for someone who does not believe in a higher power to act morally or keep anything in bounds.
Fear is a legitimate and rightful part of most religions-
Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."
The problem with "defined boundaries" is that, almost universally, they include some arbitrary proscriptions and/or requirements. For example, I don't need any religious authority's pronouncement to know that murder is wrong, but whether or not I should eat shellfish is not exactly a moral issue. Nevertheless, there it is. In other words, we are capable of sorting this out on our own.One can have defined boundaries and still not adhere to the idea that fear of divine punishment is the only source of morality.