What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

[LAMason]

The point I was trying to make, is that Richard Dreyfuss was definitely made a Mason "at sight", as some people claim.

You have edited your post by removing "NOT".

Here is what your post said before you edited it:

cemab4y said: ↑
The point I was trying to make, is that Richard Dreyfuss was definitely NOT made a Mason "at sight", as some people claim.

Why not just admit that you were wrong. By editing your post in the way that you did, it makes you appear deceitful.

 

[Jason A. Mitchell]

If your lodge/Grand Lodge is making progress to deal with the 21st century, I applaud you. Please post some of the progress here, I am very interested!

This isn't a 21st century problem. It's a human problem. It's an organizational leadership problem. That's the first thing to overcome - perception.

 

[cemab4y]

You are correct, I did go back and edit the post. My original post was correct, to the best of my knowledge at the time. I was present during the entire ceremony, and no one ever used the words "at sight" at the time. When I read the magazine article, I said "OOPS!", so I went back and made the correction.

I believe that posting incorrect information makes me look deceitful, but changing the post to present correct information, is the proper course of action.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

 

[coachn]

...Most people pick up on this concept right away...

Yup. I know what you mean. Most people pick a Thread Topic that more closely reflects the true intent of the thread.

 

[LAMason]

You are correct, I did go back and edit the post. My original post was correct, to the best of my knowledge at the time. I was present during the entire ceremony, and no one ever used the words "at sight" at the time. When I read the magazine article, I said "OOPS!", so I went back and made the correction.

I believe that posting incorrect information makes me look deceitful, but changing the post to present correct information, is the proper course of action.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Well, to correct the post you should have also deleted "The point I was trying to make", because in fact you had been trying to make the opposite point, that he was not made a mason at sight.

 

[LAMason]

...Masonry is not going to see any major changes...

I am not sure if your are limiting "changes" to be creating a charity for every societal ill and the other things that you bloviate about, but many Grand Lodges have instituted some significant changes largely in an attempt to stem the tide of declining numbers. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania made the following changes:

• Selective invitations allowed
• Three black balls now required to reject a candidate, instead of one
• A Masonic "congress" meeting in February for all Masonic groups, to seek ways to work together statewide
• One day class in 13 locations next October 30th
• District ritual teams may confer degrees on multiple candidates
• Any 60+ year old Mason who successfully recommends two new members under 30 are granted lifetime dues remission
• Dues may now be paid via credit or debit card
• A proficiency pin program certified by schools of instruction
• Shortened versions of opening and closings for meetings are now allowed
• Suspensions and expulsions to be largely handled at the local lodge level, and not by the Grand Master
• Relaxation of the traditional formal dress code in meetings
• Per capita increase of 50¢ to support youth groups
• Greater expansion of community and charity service, including an individual commitment by every single Pennsylvania Freemason to perform a weekly random act of kindness
• Simplified secretary/treasurer software to help each lodge with its annual audit
• A written ritual will now be made available for study for the first time in Pennsylvania history

http://www.lodge515.org/masonic-renaissance

Other Grand Lodges have lowered the age to petition to 18 and as you have pointed out instituted one day classes. My own Grand Lodge (Louisiana), now has ciphers for the Catechisms and Rituals, has a "fast track" proficiency, now only requires 5 members instead of 7 to conduct business.

It doesn't matter if I agree with any or all of the changes being made, some of them are rather significant in my opinion.

One man wrote me ,complaining about the "flood gates being open". I answered him, saying that the flood gates are indeed open, just that the membership is flooding OUT!

Perhaps he was referring to what he perceives to be relaxing of standards in requirements for accepting and advancing candidates, rather than raw numbers.

 

[Ripcord22A]

You guys are not.being.very "MASONIC" in your conversations here. You sound.like a couple of.old.ladys arguing over whos caserole is better. Act like the men and masons you are and agree to.disagree!....i recomend that someone delete this thread

 

[HumbleTXMason]

@LAMason

Thanks for posting the article that clearly states Bro. Dreyfus was made a mason "at sight" and for pointing out that cemab4y had changed his position, since I usually don't go back and re-read all posts when new information is posted. I'd posted on top of p.25 about the "at sight" and felt like a fool when an eye-witness to the event vehemently indicated that wasn't the case.

Good to be clear on the "at sight" been more than a "hey you... you're a mason now" and that the degrees are conferred on the candidate, etc.

 

[Morris]

You guys are not.being.very "MASONIC" in your conversations here. You sound.like a couple of.old.ladys arguing over whos caserole is better. Act like the men and masons you are and agree to.disagree!....i recomend that someone delete this thread

My grandma would use the term fuddy-duddy. She loved that word

 

[cemab4y]

@LAMason

Thanks for posting the article that clearly states Bro. Dreyfus was made a mason "at sight" and for pointing out that cemab4y had changed his position, since I usually don't go back and re-read all posts when new information is posted. I'd posted on top of p.25 about the "at sight" and felt like a fool when an eye-witness to the event vehemently indicated that wasn't the case.

Good to be clear on the "at sight" been more than a "hey you... you're a mason now" and that the degrees are conferred on the candidate, etc.

--I made the same mistake! I saw Mr. Dreyfuss take the degrees. I have heard for many years about this "at sight" business, and have never witnessed one. Then, when I was actually present at one (at sight), and no one ever used that term, I just assumed that since the man was made a Mason in one day, that it was a "one-day class". It turns out, that I was present at an "at sight" event, and just never knew it!

I got a real chuckle when I read, that Bro. Dreyfuss had been interested in Masonry for over ten years, before he actually made application. I have been to California many times, and there are lots of lodges out there, he could have just asked for a petition.

 

[cemab4y]

I am not sure if your are limiting "changes" to be creating a charity for every societal ill and the other things that you bloviate about, but many Grand Lodges have instituted some significant changes largely in an attempt to stem the tide of declining numbers. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania made the following changes:

• Selective invitations allowed
• Three black balls now required to reject a candidate, instead of one
• A Masonic "congress" meeting in February for all Masonic groups, to seek ways to work together statewide
• One day class in 13 locations next October 30th
• District ritual teams may confer degrees on multiple candidates
• Any 60+ year old Mason who successfully recommends two new members under 30 are granted lifetime dues remission
• Dues may now be paid via credit or debit card
• A proficiency pin program certified by schools of instruction
• Shortened versions of opening and closings for meetings are now allowed
• Suspensions and expulsions to be largely handled at the local lodge level, and not by the Grand Master
• Relaxation of the traditional formal dress code in meetings
• Per capita increase of 50¢ to support youth groups
• Greater expansion of community and charity service, including an individual commitment by every single Pennsylvania Freemason to perform a weekly random act of kindness
• Simplified secretary/treasurer software to help each lodge with its annual audit
• A written ritual will now be made available for study for the first time in Pennsylvania history

http://www.lodge515.org/masonic-renaissance

Other Grand Lodges have lowered the age to petition to 18 and as you have pointed out instituted one day classes. My own Grand Lodge (Louisiana), now has ciphers for the Catechisms and Rituals, has a "fast track" proficiency, now only requires 5 members instead of 7 to conduct business.

It doesn't matter if I agree with any or all of the changes being made, some of them are rather significant in my opinion.



Perhaps he was referring to what he perceives to be relaxing of standards in requirements for accepting and advancing candidates, rather than raw numbers.

Some (NOT ALL) of the changes that the brothers in Pennsylvania are instituting, look excellent to me. It just confirms that what I have secretly believed all along, that Masonry is a "work in progress".

If these changes prove beneficial in the Keystone state, maybe other Grand lodges can emulate them! Bravo!

My home lodge (KY) is very traditional, and I cannot imagine them adopting some of these ideas.

And I do not want to see a lowering of dress standards. I believe that men should dress appropriately for lodge meetings. I have attended Masonic meetings in the combat zone, where we wore battle dress utility uniforms and combat boots. This was appropriate for this situation.

In Paris France, coat and tie is mandatory! If a brother does not have one, the lodge has "loaners".

 

[cemab4y]

@LAMason

Thanks for posting the article that clearly states Bro. Dreyfus was made a mason "at sight" and for pointing out that cemab4y had changed his position, since I usually don't go back and re-read all posts when new information is posted. I'd posted on top of p.25 about the "at sight" and felt like a fool when an eye-witness to the event vehemently indicated that wasn't the case.

Good to be clear on the "at sight" been more than a "hey you... you're a mason now" and that the degrees are conferred on the candidate, etc.

--Ditto here. I have heard of men being made a mason "at sight", I never put a lot of credence into such tales. I see the spelling "sight" ,when it would be more accurate to spell "site". Also, One-Day classes have been around for many years. I have never been to one. When I went to a place and saw a man being made a Mason in one day, I concluded (incorrectly), that it was a "one-day class".

I also feel like a fool, because I could make the distinction.

 

[coachn]

Aren't all members "Made" Masons in just a few hours?

 

[hanzosbm]

I joined this forum today after several years away from lodge and saw this discussion. Knowing the reasons I had been away for so long and considering coming back, I thought it would be interesting to see the ideas that Masons from around the world had on how to improve things.
Instead what I found was several individuals trying to tear one another down. Debate is one thing, what several of you have demonstrated is just plain nastiness. I originally came to masonry in an attempt to surround myself with other men who are trying to improve themselves. If this is the caliber I can expect to find, then I say good riddance.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

At the risk of tooting my own horn, try this thread:
http://myfreemasonry.com/threads/the-great-masonic-challenge.24983/#post-143069
or this one:
http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/masonic-training.24979/#post-143832

 

[JJones]

I joined this forum today after several years away from lodge and saw this discussion. Knowing the reasons I had been away for so long and considering coming back, I thought it would be interesting to see the ideas that Masons from around the world had on how to improve things.
Instead what I found was several individuals trying to tear one another down. Debate is one thing, what several of you have demonstrated is just plain nastiness. I originally came to masonry in an attempt to surround myself with other men who are trying to improve themselves. If this is the caliber I can expect to find, then I say good riddance.

You guys are not.being.very "MASONIC" in your conversations here. You sound.like a couple of.old.ladys arguing over whos caserole is better. Act like the men and masons you are and agree to.disagree!....i recomend that someone delete this thread

What's sad is that this thread really had some potential to be informative and interesting, which is why I didn't want to close this thread. What we've ended up with, however, is 27 pages of brother Masons trying to tear one another down and make each other look like fools. The conversation has barely remained on topic for the life of this thread anyhow.

If this was the type of discussion I came across when I joined these forums several years ago then it's highly unlikely that I would have stuck around either. Which is sad because these forums made the biggest contributions towards renewing my interest in Freemasonry and getting me involved once more.

Anyhow, I'm locking this thread. There are a few nuggets worth reading so I'm hesitant to delete it right now.