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Memphis-Misraim Rite

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
Has anyone ever heard of this? Are there any organizations that are lawfully practicing this rite in the United States or anywhere?
 

widows son

Premium Member
I also heard it had been banned, I ask this in an earlier thread with no response. I think has something to do with these rite emerging from the grand orient de France which is not recognized by the UGLE
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
Michigan masonic law 1800s

Egyptian Rite of Memphis.
Inquiry is made as to whether a Master Mason in any way violates his obligations by joining the so-called Egyptian Rite of Memphis, pretending to be Masons; and whether he would render himself liable to charges for unmasonic conduct for affiliating or associating with an expelled Master Mason, and aiding in the formation of Egyptian Rite Masons.
The only limitation placed upon Masons in joining organizations, other than that of Ancient Craft Masonry, is contained in Article 8, Section 2, which reads as follows:
"Section 2. Any and all organizations, associations or persons within the State of Michigan professing to have any authority, powers or privileges in Ancient Craft Masonry not derived from this Grand Lodge, are declared to be clandestine and illegal, and all Masonic intercourse with, or recognition of them or any of them, is prohibited."
If the Egyptian Rite of Memphis claims to exercise any of the " authority, powers or privileges of Ancient Craft Masonry," all Masonic intercourse with it, or recognition of it, is prohibited, and Masons connecting themselves with it, or lending aid and assistance to it, would be amenable to Masonic discipline.
G. M. Bowring (21), 1896, p. 23.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
Pulled from another forum:

No ... it is of clandestine nature because it does not conform to the 3 degree system of 'regular' Freemasonry as required since 1817 union of the Ancients & Moderns which formed the UGLE. In most regular GLs, this system is specifically banned for a number of reasons. ... As for any educational value, that would be up to the individual as to what he find interesting.


Clandestine Lodges that use this system in attempt to claim more ancient Masonic heritage and legitimacy because of lack of recognition from 'regular' Gls & of the UGLE. ... The fact is, the old 'operative' Masonry only had TWO degrees and in most cases only one general Obligation. The multiple degrees of modern Freemasonry were developed in the 1700's. Then separated in 1817 by agreement & Union of the Ancients & Modern GL into the 'Craft Lodge' (3 degrees) and the SR or YR (4th thru 32 degrees).


The Memphis Misraim system developed in the early 1800 and continued to expand the number of it's degrees thought out the 1800's. I believe it does contain a little similarity to 'regular' Freemasonry in the first 32 degrees. (I have to recheck this myself). Much of this Masonic system is of French origin or Continental based.


Because it became very political in the mid- 1800's, it was banned in several European countries, abt 1840. Memphis Misraim system is known to have died a couple of times, therefore the resurrection of the system by certain individuals is questionable. It's continued line of authority is questionable as well as modern revision of some of the degrees (< 50 years ??).
 

widows son

Premium Member
Ya there something like 70 degrees total. But I'm still wondering, what exactly isnt recognized? Is their degrees different?
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
From what I have been able to find out is that they have their own first 3°. Which is contrary to the rights of theGrand lodge which has jurisdiction over all the first 3°. There was a time when the Scottish Rite had their own first 3°. But that was done away with with the union of the two grand lodges in England back in the 1800s. Ever since that time the grand lodges have had sole jurisdiction over first 3°. There are a few lodges here in Louisiana that still put on Scottish Rite blue lodge degrees but they're not done under the Scottish Rite and only done with permission of the Louisiana Grand lodge.
 

widows son

Premium Member
I see thanks for the clarification. I assume they are unspiritual, if it emerged in France where masonry is unspiritual.
 

suomilander

Registered User
The Grand Orient of France in 1862 assumed control from the two creators and promptly shelved it. Any lodges from it were prohibed from conferring any of the higher degrees. All titles of the rite were prohibed.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
Some people try to make something of Masonry that it is not. Not just the profane and the fake Masons, but some within Masonry too. They try to form connections that are not there becuse they want Masonry to be more then it is. Thats why we have a lot of the clandestine bodies who claim to have the "true" Masonic mystical knowledge that regular Blue lodge Masons don't. You know the ones that shine a false dark light on Masonry. Im not talking about Masons who seek knowledge about the true mysteries of Masonry. I'm talking about the ones who go beyond searching for light, into the realm of pure fantasy, and then onto false teachings. Although some of they're teachings may seem interesting and they're claimed mystical connections exciting they are still perverse and un-Masonic. It is the duty of the Grand Lodges to determine which organizations Masonry should be connected with.
 
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widows son

Premium Member
I am going to read that in full, but just have glanced over it, seems quite interesting to say the least, thx for the info.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
There are Grand Lodges outside the US, recognized by many of our Grand Lodges (check your pantagraph, a.k.a. list of grand lodges), which practice the M+MR. And yes, you can sit in their Lodge with them.
 

widows son

Premium Member
I'm still curious as to why the college of rites is the only that has these rites in their possession, I know its for Masonic research but in terms of practice why have them of they're irregular?
 

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
I'm still curious as to why the college of rites is the only that has these rites in their possession, I know its for Masonic research but in terms of practice why have them of they're irregular?

I did a lecture on this, that I have given a couple of times. In practical terms it started with the Grand Orient of France becoming an irregular body, and the fact that the degree system itself and its origins is very suspicious, Pike believed the entire thing to be a money scam, and fought vigorously against it. While all degrees in Freemasonry are somewhat convoluted in their origin, the Memphis Rite comes across as being flat out fraudulent. Marconis de Negre claimed that a man by the name of Samuel Honis, a native of Cairo, brought it from Egypt in 1814. Marconis used the "degrees" as a method to gain favor and regularity within the Grand Orient of France, where the rite was recognized. Please realize that during this time in Western Europe Egypt was very in vogue and fashionable. When it was imported in to the US, its home camp was set up in Detroit, and the degrees 4 - 95 were conferred in an hour and a half. Pike found this to be nothing more than degree peddling as degrees were about $100 (~$2000 in today's money), and Pike declared that the degree numbers could not be used in any correspondence with a AASR.

It became a struggle between the Scottish Rite and the Memphis Rite, but as other eluded to, the Scottish Rite always yielded jurisdiction to the Grand Lodge, and the Memphis Rite not so much. It didn't help that the leaders of the Memphis Rite in America were not that upright as Masons. So the degrees are often compared to degree peddling and used for Masonic schemes.

Recent organizations in America who took the Marconis approach include the Grand Orient of USA, Regular Grand Lodge of North Carolina and others.

So that is why it is banned, Arturo De Hoyos has done comparison of the degrees several times over, and they seem to provide little to no additional light.

Getting the degrees really isn't worth your time, and could cause expulsion as the Rite has a bad reputation in most western countries.

S&F,
-Bro Vick
 

widows son

Premium Member
Very interesting. So does the grand orient de France give a different version of the craft degrees, and the AASR is prevalent there as well correct?
 

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
Very interesting. So does the grand orient de France give a different version of the craft degrees, and the AASR is prevalent there as well correct?

I don't want to hijack the thread to discuss the convoluted workings of French Freemasonry, which is nothing more than a lot of Human Drama.

S&F,
-Bro Vick
 

widows son

Premium Member
Lol. I hear they dont even acknowledge the GAOTU, and the GM meets with goverment ministers. According to Wikipedia anyway.
 
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