Covid and privacy of Lodge members

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Number4, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. Number4

    Number4 Registered User

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    Brethren: I was informed today by a brother that he had been in contact with an infected person outside the Lodge; the brother concerned was cleared, but announced due to his job requirements, if he had tested positive he would have submitted a list of all his recent contacts to a third party entity. This being just four days after our stated meeting and two since Lodge practice and officer's meeting!

    This sets all sorts of alarm bells ringing, as many members object to their personal information being given outside the Lodge, particularly without explicit prior consent being sought and received. That could conceivably result in Masonic charges being pressed by an aggrieved brother, which being JW, I would have to deal with - and I would much rather not!

    What is the collective wisdom on this issue - has the question been raised in your jurisdiction?
     
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  2. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    Just wait for them to be on their death bed, and say, well we protected your privacy. We are dealing with that mess hear in southern Illinois. 2 brother's of 2 different lodges have already passed away from covid. Yes covid, one lodge tried to hide it, until the line officers all tested positive, after holding a school of instruction. But no one knows who brought it, and where else they may have infected. But remember, its a hoax, and you only die if there is a under lying issue. Wish I could tell that to now 2 widows.
     
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  3. Number4

    Number4 Registered User

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    I am truly sorry for the passing of any Brother, Lord knows we lose too many every year during flu season, and there is a bittersweet side to one of my annual duties - that of visiting our Masonic widows and presenting these wonderful ladies with a Poinsettia every Christmas and Lily at Easter.

    A little perspective: One death is always one too many, but I can't help wondering how many members the two lodges you mention have on the books? VA has approximately 34,000 Masons in 300 Lodges, which works out at around 113 members each. When one lays down his working tools, that loss, however tragic is less the 1% of the total membership. Not bad odds when compared to the chances of survival that were given my wife went she went through chemotherapy.
     
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  4. Travelingman45

    Travelingman45 Registered User

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    The flu kills. Car accidents kill. Covid has killed and may kill more. Brethren! We who follow in the brave knights and Templar footsteps have come to fear a bit much.


    Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Mobile
     
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  5. Number4

    Number4 Registered User

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    Well put my Brother! When you think about it logically, you are in far more danger driving to and from Lodge than contracting a disease while sitting in it.
     
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  6. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    Well put, I'll convey that to the line officers that got it and the new widow of my home lodge
     
  7. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    That wouldn't be an enviable task.

    Leaving emotions on one side for a moment, a couple of considerations came to my mind while reading your post:
    1. Is there a law that impose people to disclose such a list? And would not providing such a list result in criminal or civil charges?
    2. Having a clean criminal record is a pre-requisite to becoming (and continuing to be) a mason
    Normally I object to my personal information being shared without my consent in any situation and I extend the same courtesy to my friends, colleagues, relatives, etc.

    However what if not doing so may result in harm to another person?

    From another point of view, one could argue that everybody is responsible for the risks they take.

    But what if illness or death could have been avoided?

    When all is said and done if a mason was to disclose such a list and no health episodes affected the other masons in the end, you may have a situation where a number of brethren may feel uncomfortable in the presence of that one mason, because they would doubt his discretion – that's just human nature. And that may well create some considerable problems in your Lodge.

    I'm sorry that my contribution is of no use to you in solving your conundrum.
     
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  8. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    In response to the original question; no, this hasn’t come up because all three of my jurisdictions have been shut down since March, no live meetings. So we haven’t had to tell a doctor we spent time with so-and-so.

    And why is it such an issue? “Who have you had contact with?”
    “A, B, and C.”

    You don’t have to tell them why. There’s no secret that people gather. I think you’re painting your own paranoia on this issue.
     
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  9. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Not in my mother jurisdiction.
     
  10. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    Oh I see, I thought it was a requirement for all jurisdictions.

    I had to go to the town hall and get a Verklaring van Goed Gedrag, literal translation: Certificate of Good Conduct.

    I believe I was told that it was a requirement to have a clean record.
     
  11. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    I believe that here in Belgium, you have to disclose who, when and where (address or name of establishment). The "why" becomes kind of implied, eg on Wednesday evening I met A, B, and C at the Grand Lodge in rue such-and-such.

    Not that it would be an issue here, as our lodges have been closed since April (first wave, then Summer, then second wave).

    Let's hope we're not going for a third wave (like Japan and a few other places).
     
  12. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    It is only a limited number of procedures that are universal in the regular masonic fraternity.
     
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  13. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    Thou o God knowest our down sitting and our Uprising and understand our thoughts afar off shield and defend us from the evil intentions of our enemies and support us under the trials and affections we are destined to endure while traveling through this Vale of Tears .man that is born of woman is only few days and full of trouble he cometh forth as a flower and is cut down. He fleeth also as a shadow and continueth not seeing his days are determine the number of his months is with thee; thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass ; turn from him that he may rest till he shall accomplish his day for there is hope of a tree if it be cut down that it will Sprout again and that's a tender Branch thereof will not cease But man dieth that wasteth away; yea man giving up the ghost and where is he ? As the waters fail from the sea and as the flood decayeth and dried up, so man lieth down and Rises not up until the heavens shall be no more yet , oh Lord have compassion upon the children of thy creation administer them comfort in time of trouble and save them with an everlasting Salvation .
    amen

    Something to remember my brothers.
     
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  14. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    I thought it was fitting.
     
  15. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    I keep forgetting that : )
     
  16. Number4

    Number4 Registered User

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    "Is there a law that impose people to disclose such a list? And would not providing such a list result in criminal or civil charges?"

    No, in this particular instance it his employer's requirement.

    I do know of one Brother who has had extensive contact with members of the criminal underworld as a high level undercover agent. We're talking national alphabet soup agency here, not the local PD. There is a very good reason we should take our obligations seriously, it's about much more than funny handshakes.
     
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  17. Thomas Stright

    Thomas Stright Premium Member

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    So no underlying medical conditions?
     
  18. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    No, pretty healthy, one played golf and fished, the other and his wife traveled alot. But we all know its always something else.
     

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