From Religion to Mythology?

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by scottmh59, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    ***snicker snicker***
     
  2. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Registered User

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    Honestly I know that this is a VERY old post, but I think I can shed some light here. Religion in my opinion is a form of mythology in its attempt to explain the unknown by attributing it to things that are known. Dr. Joseph Campbell's interview series with Bill Moyers The Power of Myth, is a great way to explain the allusions to universality in thinking when talking about religious beliefs and their roots in mythology.

    At the end of the day, it's down to what you believe is the most influential force in your life. For me, I believe in the Christian God and I also believe in the energy of that deity that is all around us and breeds life, grows it, and surrounds us all, to others it may be Allah, Buddha, or any variety of gods in the Hindu religion.

    In terms of religion being used as a form of control over humanity is a very narrow minded approach to man's attempt to explain the unknown. There is a higher power, I have no proof of whether it exists or doesn't exist but I choose to put my faith in my religion, as all Masons do.
     
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  3. Pointwithinacircle3

    Pointwithinacircle3 Registered User

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    Matt - Since you have resurrected an old post I’ll jump in an kick the soccer ball in a new direction and see who runs onto the field to stop me. :)

    The purpose of Myth, Religion, old wife’s tales, historical education, social media, the TV “news”, everything we communicate really, is to hack the human mind. The human body replicates itself with ease once we become old enough to be driven by our biological urges. But the mind is Tabla Rosa. A clean slate in every newborn. What shall we teach these blank slates. The stories we tell teach us who we are. Myths of heroic deeds inspire us become heroic. Myths of honor inspire us to be honorable. The mythology of Freemasonry teaches us to be many things. Our religions teach us to be good people. It is our belief that we can become better that inspires us to try to be better.

    upload_2020-1-10_18-28-39.jpeg
     
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  4. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Registered User

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    I couldn't agree more! This is important in understanding why Masonry isn't a religious organization. We have our individual faiths to teach us how to be good people. Many good men have turned to Masonry to become even better by learning the ancient mysteries that have been a part of human development for centuries.
     
  5. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    But is it a religious organization. It just isn't a religion.
     
  6. Pointwithinacircle3

    Pointwithinacircle3 Registered User

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    “Words are symbols which point towards concepts..........”
    Please remind me of the concepts to which you believe the following words point:
    1. Religion
    2. Religious
    Thanks
     
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  7. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Page 4, Florida Digest:

    WHEREAS, it is fitting and proper that the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Florida, for itself and all the Particular, individual and subordinate Lodges Masonically chartered by it publish and proclaim that by reason of its fundamental precepts, principles, tenets and beliefs that Freemasonry is a non-sectarian religious organization and that by reason of its program of education it is an educational organization, and that by reason of its charitable programs, activities and operations it is a charitable organization, and that by reason thereof may, shall be, and is hereby denominated as such.

    Go ahead... argue with the GL of FL.
     
  8. Matt Ross

    Matt Ross Registered User

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    No, I really don't think Masonry is a religious organization. A lot of the ancient egyptian mysteries that our ritual is based on has religious and mythological roots; however, the lessons are universal and are not meant to be religious in nature. Masonry teaches that you should put your trust in God, whomever that may be. If Masonry were a religious organization, would it not follow a single religious construct instead of allowing brothers to be from differing religious faiths?
     
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  9. Pointwithinacircle3

    Pointwithinacircle3 Registered User

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    Since nobody is addressing the question of an actual definition I will give it a shot. Here is a basic definition that I got off Wikipedia.

    Religious: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.
    Religion: Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.

    You may agree or disagree with the definitions, but at least we will all be talking about the same thing,
     
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  10. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    Heres the problem with saying that masonry is this or that. It is more complex then that and actully is more diverse.
    In the swedish rite only christians can join and its not an appendant body.
     
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  11. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    In the USA, and more specifically Florida Main Stream, "belief in God is the religious requirement". There IS a religious requirement to petition.
     
  12. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Some Food for thought:

    Religion vs. Religious

    by Austin Cline
    Updated August 18, 2018
    (Source: https://www.learnreligions.com/religion-vs-religious-250712)

    The terms religion and religious obviously come from the same root, which would normally lead us to conclude that they also refer to the same thing: one as a noun and the other as an adjective. But perhaps that isn’t always true — perhaps the adjective religious has a broader usage than the noun religion.

    Primary Definition

    A primary definition of [the word] religious which we see in standard dictionaries reads something like “of, concerned with, or teaching religion,” and this is what people normally mean when they say things like “Christianity is a religious belief system” or “St. Peter’s is a religious school.” Certainly, then, a primary sense of “religious” does have the same object as the noun “religion.”

    That is not, however, the only sense in which the adjective “religious” is used. There is also a much broader, even metaphorical sense which occurs quite regularly and is reflected in dictionaries by wording like “extremely scrupulous or conscientious; zealous.” This is what we mean when we refer to someone’s “religious devotion to their baseball team” or “a religious zeal in the pursuit of duty.”

    Clearly, when the term religious is used in those phrases, we don’t mean that a person’s religion is comprised of their baseball team or their sense of duty. No, in cases such as this, we are using the word religious in a metaphorical sense where it would be completely inappropriate to introduce the traditional and primary concept behind the noun “religion.”

    This may appear to be a relatively simple observation — hardly worth spending any time on, in fact — but the different ways in which the adjective can be used and the fact that it can be used where the noun should not still cause confusion for some people. As a consequence, they are led to think that any belief or ideology to which a person shows an intense, personal commitment might qualify as a “religion” simply because that commitment can be described as “religious.”

    Application

    Indeed, it is precisely when it comes to belief systems, philosophies, and ideologies where this confusion becomes most prominent. For example, if a person is a vegetarian, is firmly committed to the principle that eating meat is wrong, works to educate others about the dangers and ethics involved with eating meat, and hopes for a future in which meat is no longer eaten, then it might not be unreasonable to describe this person as having a religious commitment to the principles and ethics of vegetarianism.

    It would, however, probably be unreasonable to describe this person as having a religion of vegetarianism. The vegetarianism described here does not categorize anything as sacred or transcendent, does not include ritual acts, does not incorporate characteristically religious feelings like awe or mystery, and does not involve a social group bound together by such things.

    Someone’s vegetarianism could incorporate all of the above and hence perhaps qualify as a religion. But that theoretical possibility is not the point. The point is that the mere fact that a person has a “religious” commitment to the principles and ethics of vegetarianism does not allow us to conclude that they also have the above beliefs and feelings.

    Metaphorically Speaking

    In other words, we must be clear in the distinction between the metaphorical usage of adjective “religious” and the more concrete usage of the noun “religion.” If we don’t, our thinking will be sloppy — and sloppy thinking leads to sloppy conclusions, like the idea that vegetarianism must be a religion. The same sloppy conclusion can be and has been made on account of people’s intense “religious” commitments to political parties and ideologies, to their favorite sports teams, and to secular philosophies like humanism.

    None of these are religions in the proper, concrete sense of the term. All of them can involve what can justifiably be called a religious commitment, devotion, or zeal on the part of many of those who adhere to them; none of them, however, incorporate rituals, mysteries, religious feelings, piety, worship, or any of the other things which constitute important characteristics of religions.

    The next time someone tries to argue that the description of a person’s commitment to an idea as “religious” means that they also, therefore, have a “religion,” you can explain to them the difference between the two. If they already understand the difference between the metaphorical sense of “religious” and the concrete sense of “religion,” then you should be aware that they are trying to trap you into a kind of “bait and switch” through a fallacy of equivocation.

    ------------------------------------
    ...Freemasonry IS a religious organization; it is NOT a religion.
     
  13. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    There are other definitions that apply more appropriately to this discussion.
     
  14. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    As is your right.
    This is a red herring argument. The example does not apply.
    It informs us through scripts. There is no teaching going on here.
    No. It does not require this since it is not a religion, even though it is religious.
     
  15. Pointwithinacircle3

    Pointwithinacircle3 Registered User

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    I had decided to stop posting to this thread because I felt I had said all that I needed to say. Then I read this and it gave me a new perspective on the purpose of religion.

    “Religions don’t explain the universe as science does; they create meaning through rituals, communities, textual traditions, and ways of understanding life’s great events—birth, aging, sickness, trauma, extraordinary states of consciousness, and death”.
     
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  16. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Science uses facts from what is considered empirical evidence; Religion uses metaphor (and allegory) to convey what is considered truth.
     
  17. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    I would tend to lean towards scottmh59 post. That being said, I was born and raised Roman Catholic, being older and able to understand, looking back on the teachings there was and are to many holes in the gospel. When we was old enough, we were told to explore other religion. We trekked through Mormon, Baptist, southern baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Christian etc etc. They all have the same thing in common, no substance and full of holes. Man walked the earth naked or half naked for centuries took many wives, gazed apron the stars in wonder. Then Christianity was born. Even though Hindu is way older. Most of believe there may be something more than stories of one deity. Some believe we are children of the stars, but just think what life would be with out religion, most of our laws are based from religion, there would be no morals, no fear of leading a life of no consequences. And death is what it is death. But if religion makes you what you want to be and are, then that's your belief.
     
  18. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    My elder son had glue ear when very young so could not hear properly. Despite his parents and ancestors and the inhabitants of his day care all being native English speakers, he used some French words - correctly.

    And at age 3 he was very interested in the structure of down spouts, tapping them and looking up and down to see how they were made.

    At age 4 he was present at a lodge practice. There was a formal procession into the temple. He saw the procession and went into the store room, got a sword, held it correctly, and stepped out at the front of the procession, slowing at the NE corner, looking out of the corner of his eye to make sure the procession was keeping together. He was better at processing than the officers.

    I asked him how he knew that stuff. He said that at night when asleep he was master of his own lodge.
     
  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    The origin of the word Religion may be the Latin Religare - to bind to - as in the modern word Ligature.

    The God of the OT was particular about binding: Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.....for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;

    I prefer to choose my own God and not have the choice made for me and my descendants.
     
  20. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    One cannot choose one's own God. There is only One. One can only choose one's view and worship of that One; and one's experience follows.
     
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