Rejected from visitation because I'm PHA???

[accessjrojas7]

Brothers today I was not allowed to set in a meeting, because I'm a Prince Hall Mason? I was unaware that this was an issue. I'm embarrassed, hurt and feel disappointed. I was told I'm recognized as a brother but did not have access to the rights and benefits of the lodge of Kenedy Texas. Would someone please explain to me what is going on! I'm new to the city and just want to fellowship with some brothers and get involved with my community!

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[MRichard]

The Grand Lodge of Texas and the MWPHATX recognize each other but there is no visitation as of yet. It works both ways. A member of the GLoT couldn't visit a Prince Hall lodge in Texas as well. Hopefully, there will be a change in the future.

 

[Morris]

I would recommend to call and email ahead of time to make sure you can go and to make sure you will be accepted. Keep in mind it's a privilege to visit and not a right.

If you were invited then that is a different story.


Jeff

 

[accessjrojas7]

That's the difference. .. I was invited by one of their members at the bank. I didn't just show up. After Some Phone Calls And Research I Now understand. I just felt embarrassed at the time. Hopefully these things will be worked out in the future.

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[MRichard]

That's the difference. .. I was invited by one of their members at the bank. I didn't just show up. After Some Phone Calls And Research I Now understand. I just felt embarrassed at the time. Hopefully these things will be worked out in the future.

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Is it possible that he was just inviting you to meet some of the lodge members before the tiled meeting? Then again, it is possible he didn't know.

 

[dfreybur]

I just felt embarrassed at the time. Hopefully these things will be worked out in the future.

Originally listing no visitation was at the request of MWPHAGLofTX. Last autumn MWPHAGLofTX voted to request a change in the agreement but it was too late to make it onto the December GLofTX agenda. This spring MWPHAGLofTX voted to improve the wording. As May is the deadline I expect it to come to a vote this December. I expect it to pass without opposition as recognition has been in place since 2002.

The path is a Rube Goldberg contraption. Bizarre history.

 

[BroBook]

I must ask was the brother aware that you where Prince Hall ?


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

 

[bupton52]

Originally listing no visitation was at the request of MWPHAGLofTX. Last autumn MWPHAGLofTX voted to request a change in the agreement but it was too late to make it onto the December GLofTX agenda. This spring MWPHAGLofTX voted to improve the wording. As May is the deadline I expect it to come to a vote this December. I expect it to pass without opposition as recognition has been in place since 2002.

The path is a Rube Goldberg contraption. Bizarre history.

Couple of things. We really don't know who requested the no visitation. Fingers have been pointed on both sides.

Our annual communication is next week. Let's see how it goes.

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[jjjjjggggg]

It's unfortunate that our forefathers didn't do the right thing, the masonic thing, from the beginning, and welcome all free men, regardless of color, into the lodge. Now, we are left with the mess to clean up.

But with both "flavors" of American masonry now having rich traditions and deep histories, it begs several questions:

Does it matter so much that two grand lodges exist over the same geographical areas?

Should there be only one flavor of masonry available in an area considered regular?

If, say, both traditions did become more racially diverse, how would one chose one over the other?

Should there be full reintegration as to make one or the other obsolete? Or is there a way as to fully heal the divide while still respecting the histories?

Is there anyone out there in the forefront proposing any radical solution?


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[BryanMaloney]

It's unfortunate that our forefathers didn't do the right thing, the masonic thing, from the beginning, and welcome all free men, regardless of color, into the lodge. Now, we are left with the mess to clean up.

But with both "flavors" of American masonry now having rich traditions and deep histories, it begs several questions:

Does it matter so much that two grand lodges exist over the same geographical areas?

It hasn't mattered in any other British colony than the USA. Each one had Irish, English, and Scottish GL lodges in the same territories at least for a time, and the three GL didn't fight over that.

Should there be only one flavor of masonry available in an area considered regular?

No, that's silly, and history shows it's not Masonic (or it's another America-only aberration).

If, say, both traditions did become more racially diverse, how would one chose one over the other?

Like any man makes a personal decision.

Should there be full reintegration as to make one or the other obsolete? Or is there a way as to fully heal the divide while still respecting the histories?

It's very simple: Full mutual recognition and intervisitation. The top-down THERE SHALL BE BUT ONE GRAND LODGE IN A TERRITORY smacks more of central planning and socialism than of free men.

 

[jjjjjggggg]

BryanMaloney, great reply!!!

It should be that easy... so it makes you wonder what else keeps it from being so? As recognition and issues of visitation seem to be more of an issue in the southern states, which has historically been the seat of deep racism, the arguments from lodges in these areas being in the form of my questions, makes you wonder if really they are being used as excuses to hide the real reason they don't want to do it.


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[crono782]

I believe joint visitation will occur at some point, but do I believe there will ever be a merging of the two? No.
Firstly, although I could see both sides slogging through the process of integrating laws, lodges, members, etc, but I cannot fathom either side combining ritual, which Texans hold very dear. Secondly, even though it would be nice to have it unified ala UGLE, I do not think it necessarily needs to be so. I can picture it in my head, but I don't think it will ever come to pass.

 

[dfreybur]

Does it matter so much that two grand lodges exist over the same geographical areas?

There are a LOT of regions in the world where lodges of more than one jurisdiction exist, but they all worked that out among themselves while the lodges there were being chartered. Jurisdictions do occasionally invade the territory of another jurisdiction by chartering lodges there without working out peace in advance.

So it does matter but how much is very hard to say. It's the amity that matters.

Is there anyone out there in the forefront proposing any radical solution?

States that have had complete recognition in place for a long time discuss unification on a semi-regular basis. When I moved out of Illinois a bit over a year ago it was being discussed there. Because of the long established heritage of each branch I don't ever expect unification to happen. Because of the historical example of the Antients and Moderns unifying into the Unified Grand Lodge of England I might well support a proposed unification but I don't expect there to be any large scale movement for unification in my lifetime.