Theosophical Society

[hanzosbm]

Gentlemen, thank you for the input.

Brother dfreybur, I probably stated that 'if' a little too simply. Although, going into these philosophies too deeply could be a book unto itself.

I have found that the more I study, the more links I see between different religions/philosophies. Granted, this might be because of the ideas that many of the early writers had that linked them all, but nonetheless, I think compelling arguments can be made. WL Wilmshurst compared it to the story of the 7 men examining an elephant in the dark. Each man later describing a completely different animal based on the part of the elephant they were examining (tusk, trunk, leg, etc).
I continue to find more and more overlap if I'm willing to just tweek the way I look at things. I once compared this to the movie The Sixth Sense. You think you understand the story being told, until you get that one tiny piece of information that then completely changes the story, and at the same time, makes things fit even more perfectly.
What I found interesting is that the readings I have done by Theosophists seems to indicate that they have the knowledge, but not the understanding. In another thread I commented about why this might very well be why such important things must be discovered rather than taught. It seems like they have all of the pieces of the puzzle in front of them, but they view them all separately. If they just took the pieces they had, looked for where they connect, and put it all together...
As we know, society at large is blind to the things we have come to understand. Even most Freemasons never attempt to lift the veil of allegory. Those that do and who begin to see the light are so few and far between that it's next to impossible to gather and discuss these things. I had hoped that the Theosophical Society having all the pieces would be a place for that, but it appears it is not. So the search continues.

 

[LAMason]

There are some that believe that humans have a “God Gene” or “Faith Gene”, but whether that is true or not I believe that it is human nature to believe that there is a higher power far beyond us. As far as I can tell there has been no culture/society/civilization that that held a non-supernatural explanation of the world.

It is that basic desire or need for an explanation of the world that I consider to be the common element of all belief systems be they monotheist, polytheist, or nature spirituality. Also, when you consider that we all share a common ancestry at some point and history and traditions were undoubtedly passed down orally until they were written, it is not surprising that many religions share some similar stories such as the “great flood”.

 

[Roy_]

Hanzo, rather than reading Blavatsky and co., you might want to have a look at 'the Traditionalistic school', René Guénon, Frithjof Schuon, Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Titus Burckhardt, etc. or Mircea Eliade, a scholar in comparitive religion and myth and a 'Traditionalist light'.

 

[vangoedenaam]

Im a longterm fellow of the TS. Many of the early Theosophists were (co-)masons. Far from willing to do an AMA, i might be able to answer some questions.

 

[vangoedenaam]

There still are factions. There are at least 4 Theosophical groups, and then there is Antroposophy which Rudolph Steiner started when he split from Theosophy.

 

[Mike Martin]

The masonic connection for Theosophy is within the Co-masonry of Le Droit Humain, LDH took the normal Degree Ceremonies and added theosophy based lectures to them and then labelled it as "more esoteric" Masonry.

 

[Roy_]

For a few years yes, but see my previous reply (bottom reply of page 1 of this thread). This so-called "English Rite" is marginal in the Netherlands and Belgium. The biggest Rite within LDH is the "Scottish" Rite which (at least in the Netherlands) is very much like that of the Grand Orient. (The original atheistic Rite of George Martin ("French Rite" or "Rite Moderne") is also still in use, but also only by a few lodges (in Belgium it seems to be more popular though)). I do not know if LDH in the USA, France, Germany or whereever also use three Rites that lodges can 'choose' from and which one is bigger, but this would be interesting to know.

Vangoedenaam offered to tell a bit more about the connection between Theosophy and regular Freemasonry. That would make a nice read as well.

 

[Mike Martin]

The biggest Rite within LDH is the "Scottish" Rite which (at least in the Netherlands) is very much like that of the Grand Orient. (The original atheistic Rite of George Martin ("French Rite" or "Rite Moderne") is also still in use,

Don't forget that you are here describing ritual variations that ALL (despite their names) originated in France in the latter half of the 1700s.

 

[Roy_]

I use quotations marks, because these are the names actually in use with LDH (and my own order), at least in Belgium and The Netherlands. I suppose that the name refers to George Martin being French. The other two names are not too well-chosen either in my opinion, but what do you do?

 

[vangoedenaam]

I need to ask some of my acquaintances from LDH about the English rite. They may have visited there by now.

The connection between masonry and Theosophy really is just an occasional one. People into esoteric stuff are sometimes attracted to masonry. That is what happened in the indian branch of the TS with Besant etc. they wrote some books on the subject, and brought knowledge to masonry. Not all theosophists are into rituals, or into initiation as a concept. The general idea in Theosophy is that it is time to open up on the hidden (occult) knowledge. So hiding it inside an initiation group doesnt necessarily go down well with them.

In general, i find that the two are very much complementary.

 

[Roy_]

I need to ask some of my acquaintances from LDH about the English rite. They may have visited there by now.

I have visited an English Rite once (not LDH by the way). Nice to see the differences and resemblances between that and our own "Scotish" Rite, but I prefer our own Rite. Most people on this board would mock it too I guess. Functionaries wear white garments. The opening is with incence. There is singing during the Lodge. Quite a different atmosphere, but overall surely reminding of a "Scotish" Rite. Besant and Leadbeater used a (the?) UK Rite as basis, so that is not all that strange.

As for the "Orde der Vrijmetselaren onder het Grootoosten der Nederlanden", I know that in the early 20th century works have been done on Rites and that discussions took place about making it more "esoteric" ('Theosophic'). Theosophists must sure have had quite a number in the Grand Orient in those days, otherwise this discussion would not have taken place.

And indeed, Freemasonry can be complementary to many things. That is why there is a variety of people to be found within its ranks which certainly adds to the experience.

 

[Mike Martin]

Roy I think the difficulty and why mainstream Masons do not agree with the tag "more esoteric" is because the bulk of the esoteric content of masculine Freemasonry (such as the Emulation working) is contained with the Lectures that accompany the Degree ceremonies not just the Degree Ceremonies themselves which is what LDH seemed to start off with.

Esoteric it may be but Masonic esoteric it is not.

 

[Roy_]

Again just quoting (Grand Orient literature). When the Theosophical interests were at its peak, apparently some people wanted to have this reflected in the Rites, even of the Grand Orient. That is all I wanted to say. But I Vangoedenaam is better fit to confirm or deny this.

But speaking of Emulation. An indirect link between Theosophy and UGLE seems to be that LDH UK was allowed to use the Emulation Rite in their own order in 1816. At least, according to themselves. This was not for a 'Theosophic' Rite, since that one seems to be called "Lauderdale" in the UK. Even more offtopic, in the UK LDH has even more "Craft degrees" than in the Netherlands, six against three. The description is a bit strange though, since in LDH there is not really Craft and Side/Higher. Their degrees just continue after three and one organisation heads all degrees, where -as far as I know- it is normally so that there is a 'Craft organisation' and a 'higher degrees organisation'.
But I'm running off-topic.

 

[Mike Martin]

I can see two mistakes there and they are related, neither Emulation working or LDH existed in 1816! So that is clearly information that someone has imagined and then written down.

Just for clarity Emulation is not a "Rite" it is one of the versions that came out of the ceremonies that were promulgated by the UGLE's Lodge of Reconciliation following the Union of the 2 English Grand Lodges

 

[Roy_]

Ah yes, my bad, sloppy reading. The link says that one LDH lodge started to use Emulation when it was founded in 1921 and the "approval" refers to the 'founding' of Emulation (or so it seems).

Indeed it looks like I don't quite grasp the difference between "Rite" and "working", but going there in this thread will certainly lead it off-path too far. I'll see if I can find a more fitting place to go into that so we can leave the current thread to discuss Theosophy.