Why is the north a place of darkness?

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by pointwithinacircle2, May 15, 2015.

  1. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    What is the reasons that other traditions uses the north as something of lesser worth?

    Masonic tradition is not a separate tradition but has a basis in tradition wich has been slightly modified to prove certain points.
     
  2. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >Masonic tradition is not a separate tradition

    Then we can ask why the lodge does not have an officer in the North when some other ritual forms certainly do so.

    I used to belong to a ritual organization that put an empty chair in the north. I was told by an elderly member that when he was first initiated, he sat in the NE and placed his elbow on the arm rest of that empty chair. Immediately his elbow was knocked off the chair - apparently by an invisible presence. Being a little surprised he put his elbow back on the arm rest and again it was immediately knocked off by an unseen force.

    I have taught brethren how to dowse the energy of the pedestals of the Master and Wardens then taken them to the north to try again. Each time they found the same energy somewhat displaced from opposite the SW pedestal. This experiment was done over several nights with different brethren when the temple was empty and each time the same invisible spot was found.

    What is the nature of the unmarked station in the north of a Masonic lodge?
     
  3. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    First, it should be noted that ritual is never universal and diffrent rituals have diffrent officers in diffrent places.

    If we look at the dionysian mysteries the entrence at the north was reserved for the lesser worth.

    In the middle ages the accused in a trail was placed in the north facing south.

    Looking at norse mythology the realms of the dead that are considerd "bad" are placed in the north.

    So we can see a common theme with north being of less worth in many diffrent cultures and since freemasonry is not culturally indipendent indipendant (look at the graham manuscript) it incoporate it into the ritual.
     
  4. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Native America lore uses the North symbolically to represent:

    1) the unknown; mysteries
    2) a place of transformation-discovery-recovery-uncover-danger-wonder
    3) where heroes MUST go to face what must be faced to transform the world for the better, save themselves-others or undergo an arduous superhuman task.​

    In other words, that's the place you don't want to avoid, unless you're a wussymon.
     
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  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    I’m not sure about anyone else’s ritual but in the one I was Initiated with it specifically states that it is WITHIN the temple that the sun did not reach the north, not in the geographical location.

    @coachn Good addition, I was remembering similar traditions.
     
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  6. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    Intressting. I have basicly no knowledge about native american tradition for obvious reasons ;)
     
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  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    ***snicker, snicker***
     
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  8. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    And, if you follow the direction provided to us by Ritual, you take this hint and run with it for further education into how shadows across the face of the earth differ by location, time and orientation.
    Thanks! Good to know I am not the only one.
     
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  9. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I didn't either, at first. However, as a young boy, I read up a lot about them, visited the museums in may area (LI NY) and as an adult, I was introduced to JC* and my whole life view grew wider and deeper.

    * Joseph Campbell
     
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  10. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    No native american musems over here though. But a lot of norse and bronze age things.
     
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  11. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Way Cool!!!!
     
  12. Schuetz

    Schuetz Registered User

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    I am intrigued by the legend of Cavelum. It is more interesting than the literal answer. I've always noted that in the Third Degree, it is the Sea Captain that sits in the north. However, I've found very little on his importance in my studies. In a diagram of a Lodge (I have the name Harold W. Percival next to it in my notes) there is a Zodiac circle drawn over it with Capricorn in the East, Libra in the South, Cancer in the West, and Aquarius in the North. I'm not sure the symbolism, but it is Astronomy not Astrology that constitutes one of the Seven Arts & Sciences.

    Quentin E. L. Schuetz, M.M.
    Shekinah Lodge No. 241 • IL
     
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  13. John Byron Carlisle IV

    John Byron Carlisle IV Registered User

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    As Marshall of Nevada #13, and in watch of my brother's etiquette. I commend all of you . Your conversation and or debate is of the highest regard for each other. You all are showing your obligations honorable.
     
  14. Bro CN

    Bro CN Registered User

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    According to the Hermetic tradition, the four cardinal points represent the four traditional elements of Air (heat and moisture) in the East; Water (cold and moisture) in the West; Fire (heat and dryness) in the South and Earth (cold and dryness) in the North. When conducting ceremonial magic, Kabbalists further place the Archangel of Air, Raphael dressed in yellow, to the East; the Archangel of Water, Gabriel dressed in blue, to the West; the Archangel of Fire, Michael dressed in red, to the South; and the Archangel of Earth, Uriel dressed in black, to the North. This I believe could be one of the reasons why the north is considered as a place of darkness since the color attributed to it in the Hermetic tradition is black.
     
  15. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >Uriel dressed in black, to the North. This I believe could be one of the reasons why the north is considered as a place of darkness

    In my observation of Masonry, it is common for the symbolic reasoning to be reversed. For example the EA due guard is not as we are told because of the hands at the obligation but rather that the hands are placed so at the obligation to provide a reason for the due guard. Then we must use Masonic Science to discover the reason,

    Similarly for the North
     
  16. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    The North as a place of darkness is found in many mythologies so its most likley not that easy.
     
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  17. Bro CN

    Bro CN Registered User

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    The OP specifically expressed dissatisfaction with citing the actual ritual to discern the reason. Also, it is my belief that Hermeticism and Kabbalah constitute Masonic Science and hence the use of such in my interpretation.
     
  18. Bro CN

    Bro CN Registered User

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    Perhaps the various myths all reflect the universal Hermetic and Kabbalistic science.
     
  19. Bro CN

    Bro CN Registered User

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    The WM's position in the lodge being symbolic of the rising sun should also hint at the cosmic significance of the other positions taken up by brethren in the lodge.
     
  20. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >WM's position in the lodge being symbolic of the rising sun

    On several occasions, at night in the lodge, I have "seen" a great ball of golden light approach the lodge from the East and flow into the temple as a liquid, flowing down the steps to the floor. One time it gradually filled the room until it reached shoulder height.

    Perhaps the term "rising sun" is itself symbolic.
     

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