Would your lodge like to have a US Flag, flown in Afghanistan?

Discussion in 'Freemasons in the Military' started by cemab4y, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. cemab4y

    cemab4y Premium Member

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    I have two(2) Canadian flags, flown in Afghanistan. If anyone wants one or both, please let me know.
     
  2. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    I would rather see the invaders leave Afghanistan, WAR is always about land and or resources and then uses religion to fuel it, this war has nothing to do with Freedom!

     
  3. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    And who would those invaders be???
     
  4. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    It started with Russia, remember, now you have America. The Americans have always been invaders. It is put quite simply in this video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s

     
  5. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    Happy Memorial Day!!
     
  6. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    Same to you ;-)
     
  7. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    Peace and brotherhood prevails always!
     
  8. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    So Mote it be!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  9. LukeD

    LukeD Registered User

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    If by Invaders, you mean Airman, Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Civilian Contractors, then it is in my opinion that you have mislabeled a very prestigious and honorable group. You are, of course entitled to your opinion, and that is where you also enjoy your freedom so many have fought for. As a member of the Armed Forces for 13 years, and have served in these locations, there is much more going on than what a you tube video can depict. Whether it's for freedom, resources, or land, there is much good going on, and also hardships that accompany any conflict. If these luxuries were taken away, you may suddenly find yourself having a different opinion. This thread was originally meant to honor those who have served, and provide lodges with an American Flag if they choose to have one.
     
  10. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    Wow....... Now I know why politics and religion are "no-no's" to talk about in lodge...lol I could have taken the high road about this one like Bros Beathard and Courtemanche did and just ignored those comments. But like Bro. Luke, I had the overwhelming urge to say something. My original message was going to be quite lengthy and angry sounding, but I took me a little "woo-sah" time and cooled my head a bit and thought about a lot of things (which I highly recommend Brothers do...lol). I took that little breather because Mason or not, we are entitled to our own opinions and views of things. Instead of just going off and throwing insults back, I decided I would try to educate you on the subject matter in hopes that you can make more informed comments in the future and maybe think about things a bit before you say them and end up insulting a large group of people. Especially a statement and allegation that you have made to the audience that you made it to.

    As both of us are Masons (I have no reason to not believe you are not one, and so I give you the respect of that bond we share), it would have been wrong of me to say some of the things I originally wanted to post on here. No matter how uninformed and INSULTING your comments were to not only myself and my countrymen, but also our troops and civilians that are or have ever donned a uniform and served our country no matter the cause or time period. Obviously, I myself fall into both of those categories and of course I have an emotional tether to what is going on in both theaters of war we are currently involved in, as well as to other veterans of any conflict.

    Brother, I assume that you are not American from the wording of one of your posts and also the lodge that you list in your signature block (Madoc Marmora Tweed #48) is listed on the internet as a lodge from Ontario Canada. If I am incorrect on this assumption and there is another lodge by that name in the U.S. that I missed on my search, I do apologize.

    With your nationality being from Canada, I think that it is very hypocritical of you to insult America in the manner and venue that you did. Did you not know that Canada also has troops fighting in Afghanistan?? They have been there right along side the Americans since pretty much the beginning. To date, there have been 156 Candian service members that were killed in action in Afghanistan. The first one unfortunately was killed back in 2002. Just six months after the first American troop lost his life. That most recent Canadian that gave his life was just days ago, on May 28! That 156 is only service members killed in action. That does not counting those that were wounded or even civilian deaths or woundings.

    So, Canada has been right there alongside America during all of this. They are just as "guilty" of whatever you accusing Americans of. Going by your stance on things, you are saying your own country is just as bad as America and that your own troops are the same "invaders" as ours. Do you think less of Canada or the Canadian military now? Probably not (and I hope that you wouldn't think less of them).

    The other thing I wanted to touch base on is the link that you chose to post in support of what you were saying about America. Brother, if you are going to try to insult Americans by using a link to a video, try to use something that is made by someone else other than Michael Moore...lol Especially when you are trying to preach to a mostly American group of men. I have seen that video before. If I am not mistaken, it is from Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" movie which is about gun rights and laws in America (bout 95% positive it is). Michael Moore IS one of the most hated men in America. He is hated on both sides of the political spectrum. That is not just "this man's opinion" as I can pull up a lot of different sources of polls that show how little he is thought of in this country. Even some of the most left wing celebrities want to distance themselves from him. Aside from personal opinions about Michael Moore and his rhetoric, using him or any of his productions in this manner is not credibile whatsoever. For each video clip that you show me, I can show you clips of several of THE people that he interviewed while filming that come out after the release saying how he falsified things, twisted facts to support his agenda, and even cut parts of the film out to prove his point.

    Aside from that, the cartoon has nothing to do with Afghanistan or any other war for that matter. Yea, it mentions the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, but the video is produced about America's "fascination" with guns and people owning them. Anyone that has any clue about American history really could only laugh at that video as it just tries to use completely unfactual information and spinning it with made up details to make someone believe what Michael Moore believes. Seriously? The Colt six shooter was designed to kill the slaves that were "uprising"????...lol I'm just making the point with this to use something more credible than something like that.

    Anyway, I do value talking politics and having good discussions and debates over issues. I value getting to hear others' opinions and why they feel the way they do about something. I totally respect your right to think a certain way and voice those thoughts and feelings, and I even totally welcome it. But when you come to a discussion forum that is based in America (last I checked, I thought the title of this site said Masons of Texas, which Texas is a state in the U.S.) and insult Americans for being "invaders" and having being involved to the extent that we are in Afghanistan (and also insult our troops that we love and support no matter the cause), I believe that there is a mistake in judgement there, Brother.

    I have no problems at all when Masons from Canada or anywhere else joins in our discussions. In fact, I welcome you and what you have to say with open arms, and I think that that goes for most of the other Brothers here as well. If you don't support the wars we are currently involved in, there are plenty of Brothers here that will discuss things with you openly and as men. My point is, maybe you could have worded things or approached things in a different manner than you did and not come off so insulting to the pride we have in being American and the pride we have in our brave troops.

    Brother, I know that I am not the only one that saw your post as insulting (whether some take that "high road" and ignore it all together or not), and this post was not meant insult you back. But rather to inform you of some things (mainly the way you approached it all) as I don't see how anyone that is slightly educated on this subject matter can make a claim like that (or at least in the manner that you did) and still have a leg to stand on. I really do hope that we are still on the square and can still understand and appreciate the word "brotherhood".

    Lol, just IMHO
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  11. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    Mike and Luke, I could not have said this any better. This is one of the reasons I kept my mouth shut for fear of saying the wrong thing and plus it was Memorial Day :)
     
  12. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    It is very simple what is going on, Criminal Behavior, MURDER, Invasion, and none of this has anything to do with Freedom. Freedom is inside all of us, it is not something war is waged over. This is a WAR over RESOURCES, plain and simple, and religion is being used to fuel the hatred. Murder is murder and it is that simple, two wrongs do not make a right!

     
  13. LukeD

    LukeD Registered User

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    Geeksgalore,

    Again, your opinions are yours, and you have a right to have them. Some people say standing up in a crowded room and yelling "fire" is freedom of speech, however, it will create an unpleasant response from those around, and it is not without its consequences. If this was a different forum, I would have a much different response for you. This debate, undoubtably, could go on forever. I will keep any further responses to myself out of respect for the brothers, and the original intent of this thread. As bro Mike said, this is why religion and politics are not discussed during Lodge meetings.

    PS. Choosing Memorial Day to show your anti military views was about as bright as choosing Michael Moore as a source for your debate.
     
  14. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    We all appreciate free speech and freedom of opinion, but WAR is not an opinion, it is an action, and I also agree about not talking about Politics and Religion inside of []. but we are not inside []. It is not a debate nor am I quoting Mr. Moore. War is a crime and anyone who supports it is a criminal, plain and simple.

     
  15. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    Well, looks to me as if I am a criminal considering I spent some time on active duty and as a contractor directly related to many conflicts to include the current ones. Hmmm me thinks my good name has now been defamed, what say you ;-) ???
     
  16. Brent Heilman

    Brent Heilman Premium Member

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    I reckon that makes a lot of us here criminals. I, for one, am not a criminal sir nor have I ever been or will ever be. I can probably safely say that is truly offensive to be accused of especially when you have no idea who you are saying these things too and no idea what us that are serving or currently served have seen or done over there. Until you have walked in our shoes you have no place to start throwing accusations about. I could also say that not only are you saying things about people you have never met but also brother Masons which I can say is very unmasonic behavior.

    Sent from my iPhone using Freemasonry
     
  17. Ashlar

    Ashlar Registered User

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    I support our Troops , plain and simple . And if that is a crime , then so be it , I am a criminal . Rhetoric such as yours Geeksgalore came from the same people who spit in the faces of Vietnam Veterans returning home after their tour during the Vietnam era . And that is Criminal !

    I had my beer spit in by some college student when I came home from the first Gulf War (USMC) . Lucky for him it was only my beer .
     
  18. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    Murder is a crime no matter in what fashion! Does it not state that in your so holy bible? I believe it is one on the ten commandments.
     
  19. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    LOL ROFL LMAO (and anyother abbreviation I don't know of that can express how big of a smile I have right now)

    I am smiling right now because of all of the great things I just read in these last several posts. I loved the things that you said, Bros. Luke, Brent, Ashlar, and Courtemanche (I think I'm going to nickname you O'Reilly, BTW..lol). Lol, I even really liked Bro. Beathard's one line comment, even if it was not in response to Geeksgalore's comment. Saying happy Memorial Day right at that spot in the thread was perfect..lol

    Once again, I had to take a break and have some personal cool down time to collect my thoughts after reading the remarks from Geeksgalore. For a site that revolves around an organization that is dedicated to "brotherly love", that is too many times to have the need to chill out before responding to someone's comment. Especially after that person was told by multiple people how insulting his words were and that he was directly or indirectly attacking Brother Masons with them. A good point that was brought up by Bro. Courtemanche about the name defamation (thanks O'Reilly...lol). The reaction of the Brothers could have easily been harsher, but thankfully we understand and uphold the meaning of brotherly love and nobody sunk down to the level of throwing directly insults back at him. Especially after he came back with deliberately calling us criminals that are guilty of murder and all that other stuff he said..lol

    To tell the truth, this man has made it very hard for me to not cast judgement on him. I take my Masonic values seriously, and so if it was anyone else that wasn't a Mason I'm sure that I would have judged him already and it woudln't have been too positive of a finding. But, as I said before, I don't have any reason to doubt his Masonic affiliation and we are about brotherly love here. Even if someone's views on certain subjects are not the same as ours, we still share that same common bond. However, there are ways that we can discuss the topics we differ on in a RESPECTFUL manner. He has chosen to voice his opinions in a way that defames the names of countless veteran Masons (and even every American Mason at that). Bro. Brent, you said it right. That was very un-Masonic of him, and it is such a shame to see a Mason act in that manner. Especially when he keeps going and going. Not just in this thread either.

    I really don't know what is wrong with the guy to make him want to act in such an un-Masonic manner to Brother Masons on a Masonic forum that is filled with men that love the craft. If you look at his other posts that he posted, this is not the only place that he has had some kind of issue. Bro. Beathard had to actually ask him if he was trying to pick a fight with someone. There are several other posts that he has made that has what seems like bad undertones to it. Looking into the past posts, he says that he was raised this past May 24 (I believe that is the right day...I know that it was really recent he says he was raised). So with this in mind, I try to hope that maybe he is still just pretty new to the Masonic world and doesn't see what we are seeing yet.

    I don't know, man. I see that he has already posted a few things already as I have been typing this. Two posts of which I can already see as being of the same nature that we have seen from him on this thread. We have no way of knowing who really is a Mason on here or not, but I don't have any evidence that says he isn't. With that in mind, I am going to take the high road and treat the man like he is Brother Mason and give him that respect. I am not going reply to his comments if they are like those that caused all of this crap. If he can actually say something that is for the good of Masonry and our discussions while restraining from the copy/paste from Wikipedia without disclosing his source so it looks like he typed it (if he just simply forgot about that, then my apologies..most everyone here shows where they got thier information if they copied it), the offensive manner that he speaks his opinions, and doesn't try to correct those that have been in Masonry longer than him (especially about something that he didn't even need to make a correction on, view his forum posts if your curious about that as this has gotten long enough...lol), then I am more than happy to reply under him and discuss things with him instead of ignore his comments completely. Let's just pray and hope that he learns a bit more about brotherhood. I really do hope to see him posting some good things in here.
     
  20. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    I am just curious, but what faith are you?

    Edit: Ah, I just read one of your other posts where you just kind of covered this. No worries, but if you want to share what you believe in, you can. I am still curious. If not, again no worries :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011

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