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Recommending Comasonry

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Thomas Stright

Premium Member
It is not clear you understood my quote was from the UGLE Board of General Purposes (Brethren are therefore free to explain to non-Masons, if asked, that Freemasonry is not confined to men (even though this Grand Lodge does not itself admit women)). I am a UGLE Mason.

Who was advocating allowing women in our grand lodges?


I must not have understood it, Sorry for the confusion.
 

LK600

Premium Member
One quick note, LK; I am speaking specifically of LDH (regarding co-masonry), not just some spurious fly-by-night money grubber. This may not change your thoughts but I felt it needed clarifying.
I did come across LDH (Le Droit Humain) some years ago. They appeared very well established with a global reach. If I remember correctly, they were an offshoot of Freemasonry (ours I mean) and changed various rules (acceptance of women, belief in a God not required etc.). That pretty much sums up my knowledge of them.

I am not sure if it changes my overall thoughts or not. Regardless, the various nuances of other "Freemasonry groups" requires much further study by myself before I can intelligently speak of such things. The more I look, the more I believe this may be a multi-faceted issue (not so black and white as I probably come across as). Obviously, I have tendencies of protection towards the craft. :)
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
Why would you recommend a service organization?

Why? Because with assurance from my GL that what Masonic body I was recommending was a honourable organization I could not recommend it. I personally have not done the research into alt-masonary to say was is or isn't a good organization. I would recommend something like rotary club, lion's club or something like that i know to be a legitimate organization.

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MasterBulldawg

Registered User
I'm going to try and say it differently.

My father and his brother both had families. 100 years from now if the Goomba surname is still around via descendants of those two people then the two separate families are descendants of my grand parents.

Over the decades are there vast differences, yes. Do they consider each other immediate family, no. But there would be no argument they are related even if they don't live in the same house. Hell maybe some of the descendants have done something others find counter to the good name of Goomba. Maybe some feel they are more Goomba than others.

I am not advocating admitting atheist and women into my lodge or grand lodge. No am I advocating they change theirs either.

What I am saying is it is not intellectually honest to claim I alone have a claim to the name of Goomba. To claim that only my descendants can be true to the Goomba name.

By all means have pride. I hope that each Mason believes the lodge they belong to is the best in the world. It's not about losing anything in our tradition. It's about being open enough to just look out a window and acknowledge that there is indeed an entire world outside. A world we may not want to explore or take part in. But a world nonetheless.

NOTE: It's is normal not to explore the entire world. Just because you eat at one restaurant does not mean you have to eat at all of them.
Ok but what if someone popped up in 40 years claiming to be Goomba but had no documentation to prove it. Would you take them at their word?
 
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goomba

Neo-Antient
Site Benefactor
Ok but what if someone popped up in 40 years claiming to be Goomba but had no documentation to prove it. Would you take them at their word?

I don't have any documentation that my dad and his brother are related.

Why would you recommend a service organization?
 
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goomba

Neo-Antient
Site Benefactor
I'm sorry I work in the legal system and have seen this often in the real world. Plus the company Life Lock seems to be nation wide for identity theft. Documents are only a part of the larger picture.

A dues card will not get you into, well it shouldn't, lodge alone. There are other steps.

Third time: Why would you recommend a service club?
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
Why would you recommend a service organization?
Why? Because with assurance from my GL that what Masonic body I was recommending was a honourable organization I could not recommend it. I personally have not done the research into alt-masonary to say was is or isn't a good organization. I would recommend something like rotary club, lion's club or something like that i know to be a legitimate organization.

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goomba

Neo-Antient
Site Benefactor
So your recommendation is not based of why the person wanted to join? I'm not questioning why you wouldn't recommend an unknown to you Masonic group. That makes sense to me.

I am specifically why a service group.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Why would you recommend a service organization?

Why? Because with assurance from my GL that what Masonic body I was recommending was a honourable organization I could not recommend it. I personally have not done the research into alt-masonary to say was is or isn't a good organization. I would recommend something like rotary club, lion's club or something like that i know to be a legitimate organization.

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What determines legitimacy?
 
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MasterBulldawg

Registered User
So your recommendation is not based of why the person wanted to join? I'm not questioning why you wouldn't recommend an unknown to you Masonic group. That makes sense to me.

I am specifically why a service group.
For one I'm assuming the woman in question has just a basic knowledge of Freemasonry and that she is grouping us in with other service organizations. Because to the outward world Freemasonry has become a service organization with the Shriners Hospital for kids, the Scottish Rite dyslexic schools and all the blue Lodge community service projects.

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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
For one I'm assuming the woman in question has just a basic knowledge of Freemasonry and that she is grouping us in with other service organizations. Because to the outward world Freemasonry has become a service organization with the Shriners Hospital for kids, the Scottish Rite dyslexic schools and all the blue Lodge community service projects.

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How would you accurately determine if your assumptions are correct before you make any of your recommendations.
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
How would you accurately determine if your assumptions are correct before you make any of your recommendations.
If it had gone something like this and in jurisdiction without O.E.S. or other recognized women's body.
Female friend: oh I see you you are a mason, i have always wanted to join Freemasony.
Me: Well first in this jurisdiction there is no masonic order for women as it's a fraternity for men. But you might want to look into the Loyal order of the Moose, Elks lodge, Rotary or Lions as they accept women members. And with that i would change the subject.
But since my jurisdiction has O.E.S and other bodies for women I can recommend them.

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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
coachn said:
How would you accurately determine if your assumptions are correct before you make any of your recommendations.
If it had gone something like this and in jurisdiction without O.S.E. or other recognized women's body.
Female friend: oh I see you you are a mason, i have always wanted to join Freemasony.
Me: Well first in this jurisdiction there is no masonic order for women as it's a fraternity for men. But you might want to look into the Loyal order of the Moose, Elks lodge, Rotary or Lions as they accept women members. And with that i would change the subject.
But since my jurisdiction has O.E.S and other bodies for women I can recommend them.

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Okay. I get it. You would assume that she wanted to join what your organization offered as service organization options that permitted females and provide other non-freemasonic service organization opportunities clearly outside of Freemasonry, all without ascertaining in any way whatsoever why she wanted to join Freemasonry in the first place.

That's an interesting way to accurately determine if your assumptions are correct as to her true interests for wanting to join and become a member.
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
Ok CoachN, I'm curious as to what you would do in a situation similar to this where did Lady ask about Freemasonry there is no Freemasonry option that you know of that is recognized by your Grand Lodge or a alternate Freemasonry to be a legitimate Freemasonry options for this lady. Now of course giving a more detailed hypothetical situation my answer could and probably would change but but with the simple and generic hypothetical situation I was given that would probably be my response.

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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Ok CoachN, I'm curious as to what you would do in a situation similar to this where did Lady ask about Freemasonry there is no Freemasonry option that you know of that is recognized by your Grand Lodge or a alternate Freemasonry to be a legitimate Freemasonry options for this lady. Now of course giving a more detailed hypothetical situation my answer could and probably would change but but with the simple and generic hypothetical situation I was given that would probably be my response.

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I would first find out why she wanted to join. Should it be for Freemasonic rites/rights, lights and benefits, I would let her know that there are female-craft options that, sans for gender differences, are in line with what she sought.

I would also encourage her to seek out these organizations and do her due diligence upon them.

Her involvement or non-involvement in it would have absolutely no impact whatsoever upon the organization to which I belong, or its members.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Ok CoachN, I'm curious as to what you would do in a situation similar to this where did Lady ask about Freemasonry there is no Freemasonry option that you know of that is recognized by your Grand Lodge or a alternate Freemasonry to be a legitimate Freemasonry options for this lady. Now of course giving a more detailed hypothetical situation my answer could and probably would change but but with the simple and generic hypothetical situation I was given that would probably be my response.

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I would explain that while they are not recognised by my jurisdiction, there are feminine lodges
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
"Should it be for Freemasonic rites/rights, lights and benefits, I would let her know that there are female-craft options that, sans for gender differences, are in line with what she sought."

Even if you did not know these other Masonic organizations to be legitimate Masonic organizations?





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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
"Should it be for Freemasonic rites/rights, lights and benefits, I would let her know that there are female-craft options that, sans for gender differences, are in line with what she sought."

Even if you did not know these other Masonic organizations to be legitimate Masonic organizations?
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I would let her know that these are options and as I had indicated in my post: I would also encourage her to seek out these organizations and do her due diligence upon them. Just as I would do for anyone seeking Freemasonic rites/rights, lights and benefits outside my membership jurisdiction.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
"Should it be for Freemasonic rites/rights, lights and benefits, I would let her know that there are female-craft options that, sans for gender differences, are in line with what she sought."

Even if you did not know these other Masonic organizations to be legitimate Masonic organizations?





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According to our(malecraft) organization none of them are "legitamate".

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