Destructive sw in line for WM

Discussion in 'Officers of the Lodge' started by Levelhead, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    I do appreciate it but nothing can be done.thank you!'


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  2. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    Assistance the troubled is a stretch, in my opinion, of our Masonic obligation. Here are a few of my reasons for thinking so:

    * We as free men get to chose what work we accept or reject. Not only this we may not equipped to conduct some work and it is wise to realize this.

    * "they making application.......and i find in them worthy" the idea of personal objection is built right into the ritual. If the cause is not worthy by our own estimation we are not obligated to it. No other person in the craft can tell me a cause is worthy to me. They can say it is worthy to them but that does not impose their value system onto me. To impose our value system is counter to Masonic teachings. We are a voluntary association of free men who must each follow our own, individual, value system. Generally yes this leads to a common outcome but not always. This is also why we vote on various things in the lodge. This is another outlet for our individual judgement on a situation.

    * Various places in ritual that say "without injury to myself" or "within the length of my cabletow". I determine what would injury me and what the length of my cabletow is. So again right in the ritual our own personal thoughts are to lead us to this. No other person in the craft can tell dictate to me what is within the length of my cabletow.

    * If a situation between myself and another brother is causing disharmony in the lodge. Once solution would be for me to leave. Not all situations can be fixed with discussion. It is sad but true.

    * The moment when asking for assistance from a brother then mandates you do an action because "if it is worth talking about or asking for opinions, guidance or recommendations, it seems worth working through" is the moment you tell a brother not to ask for assistance. Because if he does he is then locked in to a situation because this is the price for said assistance.

    If we don't want a brothers personal objections (aka thoughts) they we are not a society of free men. We are a society of slaves to an organization that dictates to us. The lessons of the fellowcraft are very clear we are to learn and reason. This means we as individuals are to use our minds to guide us. We are to future whisper good council to a brother.
     
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  3. oldjumpmaster

    oldjumpmaster Registered User

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    Goomba,

    Though I understand your perspective and that of many of the bothers on this thread, I guess my bullheadedness is getting the best of me. The title of the thread “Destructive SW inline for WM” clearly grabbed my attention, if for no other reason than to see the different responses this generated. I understand harmony is something that is not always possible and getting along with others is sometimes easier said than done. To say I have gotten along with everyone in the fraternity would be dishonest. To say I agreed with the outcome of all elections and whom have been emplaced within positions would also be untruthful.

    I read the situation where a fellow lodge officer whom he had served with for least an entire term had basically slandered him, and supposedly cost him the opportunity to move onto SW. The problem I have with this entire post, is the very thing that he was upset about happening to him he is doing the same. To criticize your brother or anyone who does not have the ability or opportunity to defend themselves is bad business. I realize the challenges when your passionate for your Lodge and the effort you have put into it and things seem dire.

    Maybe I’m too sensitive with the situation and allowing it to bother me because of the lack of rhetoric. Maybe it’s the airing of a Lodge’s dirty laundry or it could be a that a MM is bashing one of our own in an open post. I’ve enjoyed the many responses that I have read and can only hope for the repair of the confusion in their craft.
     
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  4. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Theres alot more that can be said. I kept it cival and respectfull.


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  5. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    Brother, no harm done with me! If we all agreed on every topic that would be a boring tragedy. This is the beauty of discussion and brotherhood: so long as respect is shared we can talk about anything under the sun and still be brothers.

    My mother lodge has its charter taken by grand lodge because of a ruffian within our lodge. Because of blind trust we the charter, $100000, and the most most valuable lose was the hurt the brothers endured. The ruffian I am glad to say was expelled from our honorable fraternity and is again a profane. That year I was in the South and it was one hell of an educational year. In addition to the profane, two MM's were suspended, one renounced Freemasonry and the lodge was torn apart.


    For those GL's who don't have the concept of renunciation it goes beyond a demit. It means you reject the fundamentals of Freemasonry and wish your name to be stricken form the roles as if you were never made a Freemason. No lodge can bring you back into the fraternity. Only grand lodge action can reverse renunciation and well it isn't done often.
     
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  6. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    In Kentucky if you demit to reapply you have to start all over again. You have to petition the lodge, meet with an investigation committee and then be voted on.
     
  7. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    But they don't have to take the degrees again do they? As what you stated is common practice as far as i know, minus having to take the degrees over

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  8. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    No, to my knowledge they do not have to re-take the degrees.
     
  9. rpbrown

    rpbrown Premium Member

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    In our jurisdiction, to move or join another lodge would require a letter or certificate of good standing from your home lodge. I believe this is just to say you are current on your dues but would your home lodge, given the circumstances, give such a letter?
     
  10. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I would think that if you are current in your dues and your home lodge secretary refused to acknowledge this that you could contact the Grand Lodge to intervene on this matter. I believe that you would be entitled to this letter if your dues are, indeed, current.
     
  11. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    It is also to say that you are not laboring under charges- hence "good standing".
     
  12. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    I have had issues with my lodge , the lying, back stabbing, the talking behind brothers backs, running people off. I recently was asked by a lodge I visit often and have become a honorary member of, to demit from my lodge and join theirs. I enjoy the friendship there and encouraged to participate as often as I can. I need to wrap up a couple more things before leaving my lodge, but for now, I tell everyone I'm a freelance mason. Lol.
     
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  13. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Im freelance too.. lol. Its sad how the politics and wanting to be a so called "higher up" change people.. just so you dont have to clean dishes lol


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  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Lol, cool term.
    Yes, it is.
     
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  15. BullDozer Harrell

    BullDozer Harrell Registered User

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    To each their own but 'freelance' translates into unaffiliated. Is that the way to be, i wonder?
     
  16. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    To me Freelance means pay my dues, live life by my obligations and dont attend lodge or deal with pilotics and backstabbers .

    Ill sit at home and be a good mason.


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  17. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This is the way that I took it to mean in this instance.
     
  18. BullDozer Harrell

    BullDozer Harrell Registered User

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    I get it now. You're a financially active Mason but otherwise a disengaged member.

    Perfect!

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  19. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Like 80% of the "average" lodges in the US.
     
  20. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    I obviously haven't read all of the posts but I do know that the old saying 'one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch' is very true. As a matter of fact, I'm in a similar situation. I was looking to join a lodge that is just around the corner from my house. Literally could throw a baseball and hit the building from my porch. Perfect location. However, while recently visiting, I met a 'brother' who is in the line, SD if I'm not mistaken, but not for sure. Very confident individual, which is good but I noticed after the meeting, he had a beer or two and was all of the sudden being, to put it nicely, an asshole to some of the other members. Joking is one thing but talking to elderly members in a condescending and smart alecky manner is uncalled for. It really put me off. So much so that I could see him being a problem down the road. I had never met the guy and he was even doing some mild 'ball busting' towards me. Seemed to have some confidence issues maybe, Napoléon type thing. I don't know. His spouse was there and he was sort of 'showing off' in front of her.

    Two days later, my wife and I were a local brew house and I saw this same person, pretty sauced looking, and I went over to shake his hand and he shook mine but he said something sort of off the cuff like, 'well I see you're just showing up everywhere in (city), huh?' and then pretty much walked off. Very arrogant I felt. Nothing too bad, but the guy has poor tact and I would imagine he is a pain at officer meetings and argumentative. I'm willing to see if it was just a misunderstanding.

    Where I'm from, people are warm and cordial towards others they just met and not crass and rude. I was put off to say the least. I'm sure the other guys are use to it and "it's just 'Johnny' being 'Johnny' and he doesn't mean anything by it...'" but that doesn't mean it's ok necessarily. People don't get a pass to be a jerk. Same for people that 'just tell it like it is' or straight shooters. That's not necessarily a virtue either. It's bad manners sometimes.
     
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