Grand Lodge of Alabama and PH Grand Lodge of Alabama

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by goomba, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Your right, it is sad but this is why young PHA brothers like myself come into freemasonry and learn that there is still segregation and are completely sidewiped and later in life resent southern GL of state masons.

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  2. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    If such is the case, your ashlar is in dire need of further work.
     
  3. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    It is what it is. When you deal with racism from so called brothers for so long it hardens your heart some time.

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  4. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Bill Lins understand my statement wasnt directed towards non racist freemason, but rather the bigots that operate in darkeness

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  5. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    I'm on the other side of the fence and I agree 100% with you. It's an absolute embarrassment that after hundreds of years this is still an issue. I lost friends over this issue and almost cut ties with some family.

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  6. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    It is sad. I have some good friends that are GL of State masons, but we are still at a distance considering our situation that we neither agree with. Your absolutely right, after 100 of years........ Thats why I say forget just a vote to recognize, vote for full recognition. Im ready to see our counterparts practice Freemasonry as well.

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  7. Bro. David F. Hill

    Bro. David F. Hill David F. Hill Premium Member

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    I am old in years (60) but young in masonry. I understand the frustration that our young brothers feel and I have felt the same way BUT I also have experienced overt and covert racism in my life. Fortunately most of the younger generations haven't had to face it as much as my or my parents generations have. Now to explain why baby steps had to be made. In 2007 the GL of Texas and the PHGL of Texas agreed to recognition without visitation. This was done because the makeup of most Grand Lodges leans towards older members. We have younger members joining but many of them don't attend Annual Sessions to be able to voice their opinions and vote. This leaves the older members, many with lingering negative feelings and experiences, to determine the direction that the craft will go and they were and are comfortable with the separation. When Texas finally approved visitation in 2016, there were some members from both sides that loudly voiced negative opinions about it. To change the culture thus move masonry forward, we need our our younger members to get involved. Lead the change.
     
  8. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    But you you do realize that from my understanding, and know I️ have NEVER been present at a GL vote for PHA recognition as all my jurisdictions already have full recognition, but my understanding is in the last few recognition votes it was PHA that didn’t want visitation. And in Texas it was PHA who wanted that confounded system of approval to visit. PHAoOK has had local recognition but still hasn’t requested UGLE recognition, why?

    PHA is just as if not more guilty of overt and covert racism then the state GLs. So before you resent someone make sure you look in the mirror at your own side of the family tree my brother!
     
  9. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    I beg to differ. It doesnt make you racist just because a group of people over 400 years were racist to you and now you are uneasy about them. I have looked in the mirror and what I see is mainly PHA just trying to get a little progress because they know what type of battle they are fighting

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  10. Bro. David F. Hill

    Bro. David F. Hill David F. Hill Premium Member

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    That's what I said. Many people that have never been the object of discrimination don't understand what these older people feel. Fortunately our younger members have not faced Jim Crow laws or have been attacked by racist groups. But our older members have and they still carry the anger and hurt. Our future is our younger members but there's still many older ones on both sides that harbor negative feelings. Some have passed their views on to the younger generation but fortunately the number that feels that way is dwindling.

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  11. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    True, but the way things are slowly coming about gives me great hope.
     
  12. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Yes the younger generation has not experienced as much as the older generation, but that is not to take anything away from what is still going on. Although I understand the Era they faced, I still dont see how many white GL justify it as if they were the ones being oppressed. They were the oppressors.

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  13. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Well....I have made my feelings known on the matter. I hope that everyone understands that I wish only the best for everyone, especially my Brothers. Therefore, this is my last post on this subject.
     
  14. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I think you're missing my point. At this time, there is no List of Lodges Masonic that include this particular PHA Grand Lodge. A list of the those lodges would need to be provided from the PHA Grand Lodge then new Lists of Lodges Masonic would need to be printed and distributed to all of the lodges in that jurisdiction. That takes time. And until that is completed, you can't tell who is from a legitimate Prince Hall Lodge and who is not, so allowing a visitor becomes difficult.
    Yes, they could do the wonderful Grand Secretary correspondence dance, but we all know that's a nightmare and I can only imagine that large number of Masons from both sides simultaneously submitting requests would make the two Grand Secretaries' heads explode.
     
  15. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Perhaps they should follow GLoTX's lead. Before PHA-TX was included in the List of Lodges Masonic, PHA-TX provided all GLoTX Lodges with a list of their blue Lodges along with all contact information and photographs of their old & new dues cards. I'm sure GLoTX provided PHA-TX Lodges with the same information. Problem solved.
     
  16. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I completely agree, I think that makes the most sense, and my guess is that's exactly what they will be doing. But, again, that takes time. My guess is that this is exactly what is being done between recognition and visitation and the cause for the delay. It wouldn't make sense to include PHA lodges in the List of Lodges Masonic if you don't recognize them. So, extend recognition first, then update the lists, then allow visitation. Seems like a logical progression to me.
     
  17. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member Site Benefactor

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    Even PHA GLs that are recognized by state GLs aren’t necessarily in the List of Lodges. GLCA proceedings mark both foreign and domestic GLs with an asterisk if they aren’t listed and give the page number if they are.
     
  18. BullDozer Harrell

    BullDozer Harrell Registered User

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    There's something that happens on both sides which is often overlooked.

    Grand Lodges are not always diligent in responding to matters.

    I've found this out as a researcher.

    People in offices are not doing their jobs.







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  19. Symthrell

    Symthrell Registered User

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    I look forward to the day when all of this is behind us and we can freely visit each others lodges and freely call each other Brother! That is one thing I like about this forum, we can freely discuss masonry and not worry about GL affiliations.

    I think MLK said it best when he said " I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Isn't that what we as masons should do? The masons should want men of good character!
     
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  20. R. Jacques Johnson

    R. Jacques Johnson Registered User

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    As a former Mason of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alabama I have mixed emotions. While I am happy to see "progress." I am wondering is it really? After reading the official decree from the Grand Lodge of Alabama I am embarrassed for all Prince Hall Mason's in the State of Alabama.

    "Our two Grand Bodies have shared this jurisdiction without interference from the other for 147 years. It is our goal to formally acknowledge one another but to maintain our separate existence."

    The coupled with the fact that further in this same decree it states that this issue can not be address again for at least 10 years reminds me of why I am a former member of the MWPHGL of Al. I recognize Mason's that recognize me regardless of color, jurisdiction, affiliation etc. If the 'PHGL- Al. meets ALL OF THE STANDARDS FOR RECOGNITION AS UTILIZED IN REGULAR FREEMASONRY WORLDWIDE." Then why don't you just recognize them? Hypocrisy!? Racist!? In MY opinion this is not progress just a formal decree of how much we have remained the same. The relationship has been over. We have existed without each other for 147 except now the Divorce is official!

    Respectfully submitted by a Mason that took his obligation seriously.
     
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