Grand Lodge of Alabama and PH Grand Lodge of Alabama

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by goomba, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    OR... they are executing the job that is not in line with the principles of the organization and very much in line with their personal biases.
     
  2. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    Two things... the first is, yes it very well could. Judging a group of people based on skin color is by definition racist. Two wrongs don't make a right. Second thing is, nobody did anything to you 400 years ago unless you've found the best anti aging cream ever made! ;) I did nothing to you and by your very statement, you are judging me by skin tone and by the sins of my ancestors (not really because my family got here in like 1902).

    All Joking aside, I totally get your meaning though. It's human to harbor resentment based on past wrongs even though the people standing in front of you weren't those people at all. I do it... everyone does it whether they admit to it or not. I sincerely wish we all could move past it because we all lose out on so many possibilities to learn and grow.

    It's sad how our past has been so tragic, and by far it's been whites causing pain to others (within the last 3-400 years). But to me it's much worse that we STILL can't seem to come together. Someone has to take the first steps.
     
  3. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Brother, I get what you are saying and to a degree I agree, but let me tell you why your wrong in a sense. Although slavery, oppression, murder, hangings, etc happened over 400 years ago we are still dealing with racial inequality in this counry that is post civil war ear and post 50s and 60s era. Prime example : Segregation in masonic lodges. We can use " exclusive territory" as crutch all day to justify not recognizing each other but in the end of the day racism is the driving force. Id like to quote a very controversial Masonic scholar who may not have liked Black Masons but had the decency to recognize PH masnory Albert Pike" Prince Hall Lodge was as regular a Lodge as any Lodge created by competent authority. It had a perfect right to establish other Lodges and make itself a Mother Lodge." I also like to quote the late JFK when discussing why there is still hate and racism. Its a moral issue in the heart of man. " law alone cannot make men see right. We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the Scriptures and is as clear as the American Constitution.”






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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  4. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Intresting. Put it into perspective

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  5. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Did I read this correctly, the GL of Alabama voted to recognize them but want to maintain separation ? Lastly did it state this could not be brought back up for 10 years ? Meaning to not be voted on ? Where can I find this resolution ?

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  6. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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  7. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    Brother, there is absolutely nothing you just said that I disagree with. I was trying to point out that regardless of reason or excuse, judging a race by the actions of people either long dead or transferring those individuals actions to an entire group is by definition racist( not referring you personally or anyone else).

    Don't think for a minute that I am trying to circumvent, realign, shift blame, or any other thing in an attempt to try and remove or cover up the massive amounts of abuse committed in the past, and as you pointed out, abuses still taking place (and I completely believe that they are in places). Maybe to much pain has been caused for some people to move past, I don't know. I know that every day the separation of our two groups continues is an embarrassment to myself, and should be to all Masons.
     
  8. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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  9. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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  10. R. Jacques Johnson

    R. Jacques Johnson Registered User

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    Brother I must disagree with you about this comment. It is just as disturbing as when the president says there were good people on both sides of the protest in Charlottesville. Are there racist black masons? No! Its not a hate because of your skin color its a hate because of your treatment of blacks past present and future. If the PHA Grand Lodge was racist why would it seek recognition from the UGLE? So I have to say that the lack of recognition but southern states is purely one sided. To give context of my "opinion." I have been a member/officer in Prince Hall Grand Lodges in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, & Louisiana over the past 21 years. I have personally raised white men in every state into PHA lodges. We are not racist! However, we have human reactions to the mistreatment that we get unfairly.
     
  11. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    My brother, by this comment, you have demonstrated the issue. Because of racist treatment by some whites and even white controlled institutions, you ascribe that attribute to all, even to those not yet born.

    Hang around the FB groups, and you will see racism on both sides—the Hotep devotees claiming the white man stole Masonry from Egypt (one actually said Geo Washington did so) would be an example.

    You also make the logical error of comparing a group (a whole GL) with individuals within the group. Clearly, the actions by individual members in GL of AL demonstrate this is inaccurate—they are acting to overcome the institutional racism. Similarly, because some PHA GLs (not all) have sought recognition from UGLE, does not exclude racism by individual members within that Grand Lodge.

    Finally, to claim that racism cannot exist in a racial group confounds common sense. Indeed, is that not an argument that one race cannot demonstrate the same emotions as another?

    To be clear, no one here denies the cultural and institutional racism embedded even in the founding documents of this country. No one denies that racism still taints the actions of predominately white Grand Lodges.

    But please don’t claim the right to “hate” my children because of acts of a century ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  12. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    The irony... it escapes you... There are racist masons, they exist everywhere and even in places one might least expect.
    1. Race does not exist.
    2. Seeing something that doesn't exist, and acting as if it does exist, is delusional.
    3. Racism is delusional.
    4. Labeling anyone by race is a racist act and delusional.
    5. Hating anyone based upon treatment that has not yet occurred is delusional and irrational and is an indication of a wounded soul warped by unresolved hurt.
    6. Hating anyone based upon a stereotype which is further based upon a racist label is itself racist.
    When you label masons as "black" and asked if there were any "racists black masons", did you truly believe your actions were not being seen for what they are?
    So, let me get this straight...
    1. Race does not exist.
    2. Seeing anyone through a racial lens is racist.
    3. Labeling a man by race is a racist act.
    4. You label a man "white" and yourself a PHA that has been around and earnestly want your readers to believe that racism doesn't exist within your organization?
    1. Is it fair to say that you are labeling men as either "black" or "white"?
    2. Is it fair to say that you hate based upon future imaginings?
    3. Is it fair to way that you want to continue labeling men racially and have the privilege of not being considered racist for doing so?
    Brother, you have a lot of passion. It could be further circumscribed until you realize the mixed message you're sending.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  13. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    So... your removing the possibility of racism based on... race? Your realize sir, that's racist?

    Having been treated extremely badly (yourself or ancestry) does not negate racism. It may be a reason one is racist (based on past wrongs) but it is still racism. Nobody gets a "I'm allowed to be racist card" because of any excuse, race, or creed.
     
  14. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    He just played the Alt Left SJW BLM I cant be rascist cause I’m black card? WOW


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  15. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I've never seen one. Have you an example?
     
  16. Symthrell

    Symthrell Registered User

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    I am not sure I like the directions this thread is going. I believe that in the end there are people on both sides of the fence that have views which are not helpful. I would hope that we all can work together as brothers to improve things within Masonry and set an example for others to follow.
     
  17. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    After speaking with the Grand Sec. of the GL of Alabama today I would like to retract my statement concerning no progress. As I was speaking from an uninformed position.

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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  18. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Question : Now that the GL of Alabama has recognized the PHA GL of Alabama can other GLS extend recognition to the PHA GL of Alabama or does visitation, full recognition have to be established first ?

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  19. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I understand full recognition has already been established. Just not visitation.
     
  20. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Does visitation have to be established first before Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alabama can sit in other Grand Lodge of States Lodge ? Or is visitation optional?

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