Homosexual and Bisexual Brother Masons

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Mason653, Jun 29, 2013.

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  1. Abdullah.Hadidi

    Abdullah.Hadidi Registered User

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    I feel that it is unnatural , but you never know what a brother have been through. I believe that there love experience got themselves in to it.


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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  2. Mason653

    Mason653 Registered User

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    Great question.


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  3. rpbrown

    rpbrown Premium Member

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    Although I do not condone their lifestyle, I have not foud anything in any of the obligations nor the petition that asks or condems any sexual orientation nor have I found anythin in GLoT laws. Therefore, if I knew of a gay petitioner, I would be obligated to vote for him as long as he meets all of the requirements set forth.
     
  4. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    I've never supported a candidate who wasn't a sinner.

    That being said, I think it depends on what the brethren are comfortable with.
     
  5. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    I know gay Masons. Some it is an open secret. Some I was the first, and for a while the only Brother they told.

    Not only do I have no problem with it, I would go to bat for them and fight the good fight for them if it ever came down to that. One in particular has been such a good friend to me, and such a pure example of what it is to be a good Brother to a lodge that I think pretty well everyone would circle the wagons anyway. A good man is a good man.

    I too was in the art community for a good long while, and before that worked for a Dutch corporation, and then a San Francisco based corporation. Both had a very progressive corporate culture. I've had peers, bosses, and subordinates who were gay, many gay friends and so forth. Its just not an issue for me.
     
  6. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    I agree with your first point entirely. I have modified the original thread title to correct the term "gay" to "homosexual".
     
  7. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    *shrug, the folks I know of same sex persuasion use the word "gay", but it doesn't hurt to go the extra mile to be sensitive about it I reckon.

    By the way, the first real exposure I had to the issue was while working for Chevron as a web developer years ago. I pulled a project redoing their internal website for their GLBT support group. I figured GLBT back then was some business unit, after all every darned unit had some kind of alphabet soup name.

    It was an eye opener. And Chevron (and then ChevronTexaco, and then Chevron again) was so supportive and cool about the whole thing that I was impressed. And this is an energy company we are talking about.

    I think that most folks who have worked in fortune 500 corporate environments in the last couple of decades are likely to shrug at it. Professionalism first and so forth. Same goes in the lodge.
     
  8. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    This is such a divisive issue for Masonry (but a great topic for a forum:) and I believe it is an indvidual masons right to vote his heart but to keep that vote private and sacred. If we are trully on the prusuit of peace and harmony we have to recognize this is a private issue that does not need to be worked out in the public to trample on others brothers beleives gay or straight.
     
  9. ShadyGrove821

    ShadyGrove821 Registered User

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    I don't have a problem with a Brother's sexual orientation, nor with the word "gay." Societal norms (as well as language) are always evolving.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  10. j_gimpy

    j_gimpy Registered User

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    Of course I would. They are a sinner themselves, and whose to say their sins are any less of a transgression than a homosexual brother's. Additionally, most religions teach that those who are not members of their religion are in a state of sin, just as the homosexual is. So, would you expect a fundamentalist Christian brother to not vote for a Muslim brother just because his religion differs and he is in sin? I think not. I would hope that most brethren would be open to men of all sexual orientation just as much as we're expected to be open to all men who believe in a Supreme Being.

    As Masons (though I'm just a fledgling Entered Apprentice) we are supposed to review the internal moral character of a man, and his sexual orientation should have no bearing on his morality. The fact that this question is even being asked is a little disheartening.



    Entered Apprentice Mason
    Phoenix Lodge #154
    Sumner, Washington
     
  11. Heart of Stone

    Heart of Stone Registered User

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    I just don't see how you can become a better man, and live that lifestyle.To me your not a man anymore, once you commit a act like that.Now if your trying to move on from that lifestyle and be normal, to me that's trying to better yourself.

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  12. Starr

    Starr Registered User

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    I would like to here your definition of normal. In most cases this changes from one country to the next, culture to culture and person to person. It is similar to defining the Great Architect of the Universe. Everyone as a different definition.

    If what you are referring to is social norms, those also change over time and between cultures.

    Just a thought.


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  13. Heart of Stone

    Heart of Stone Registered User

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    I think I'll lay off this topic I'm not real Liberal when it comes to homosexuality,plus I'm in no way perfect.I consider a man and woman together as normal.Anything else is a abomination in my book.

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  14. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    "Masonry unites men of every country, sect and opinion and consiliates true friendship among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance" This is part of the explanation of Brotherly Love in my monitor and I am finding it is much MUCH harder for us as masons to practice. We are getting there though just a rough and rugged road!
     
  15. LittleHunter

    LittleHunter Registered User

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    I think we have to accept a bit of a generational gap and a cultural gap on this issue. Masons who are younger and/or more progressive are going to be fine with gay brothers. Personally, I believe that a man who is faithful to his same sex partner is moral and that a man who is cheating on his wife is not. However, i understand that some religions consider homosexuality an evil act. Some religions consider lending money to be evil or mutilating the body with tattoos. I would never ask someone to go against their own religion and conscience. In the long run, only the Man Upstairs can judge us. Among
    my Brothers and friends are men of many different faiths and walks of life.


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  16. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    • To me, becoming a better person means rendering yourself useful to your fellow creature, through knowledge and good deeds, and in turn finding inner peace while doing so. Any man, homosexual or heterosexual can do this, and has been done.

    • Like some of the other brethren here, I have a few friends as well that are homosexual, and I assure you being homosexual is no act of choice. To say that one is a man because of his sexual orientation I believe is wrong. What defines a man? Merriam-Websters online Dictionary defines man as:

    • Homosexuals cannot simply "move on from that lifestyle and be normal". That is normal to them. It works the same for someone who is heterosexual. They cannot just work to change their orientation, and is certainly not simply a matter of choice. The consensus among scientists is that genetic factors play a major role during development in utero. One cannot simply change their genes, and hormone levels.

    • Brother I I'm in no way trying to change you beliefs or put them down. Be it for me to trifle with you. I just simply wanted to share that some of the statements made aren't so easily said than done.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  17. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    I suppose for me I just don't think it is a choice. Folks are just wired that way. That is my read after observing the gay folks I know and whatnot, and it is bolstered by what they themselves say about it.

    Therefor I don't see it as a moral issue or sonething to "reform" from, if you will.

    But thats my view, not trying to be over bearing about mine just sort of explaining.
     
  18. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

    I ask myself how I act and react with regard to tolerance. I ask myself what tolerance is and what tolerance is not.

    For me - I try to always start out acting in tolerance. I try to return tolerance with tolerance. I try to return intolerance with slightly decreased intolerance in case escalation can be reduced or avoided. I am clear that intolerance should not be tolerated. I'm sorry Master Yoda but my path to being a Jedi is very long and I am very far from arrival. So I do try and sure enough at times to try is to fail. I work on getting better at it every day.

    Tolerance is peace. Tolerance is reacting to peace with peace. Tolerance is live and let live, non-interference.

    Tolerance is not agreement, not acceptance, not acquiescence, not submission, not changing one's mind. Tolerance is not hate nor is it love either.

    It is tempting to see tolerance in terms of turning the other cheek but I don't think that works. That would be acquiescence not tolerance so tolerance is less than that. Tolerance is also not winding up to strike the cheek even when I want to, but tolerance is more than that.

    Is tolerance independent of morality? I don't think so but it is different from morality. Maybe it's a part of morality. Maybe it's a challenge of some sort with regard to morality. Then again maybe it leads to -

    A mind is like a parachute. It only works when open. But please not so open that your brain falls out onto the sidewalk in front of you.
     
  19. AAJ

    AAJ Registered User

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    My religion teaches that God's plan involves creating and rearing families, and specifically forbids acts of homosexual intimacy. But then again, my religion also teaches that we should love our neighbor and not judge others.

    It all depends on the man. I might be against admitting a flamboyantly gay man, just as I might be against admitting a flamboyant womanizer. Anyone who uses their own sexuality openly and without discretion deserves, at the very least, a second and maybe a third look.

    Beyond that, I think that it would be wrong to deny a man the chance to stand on a level with his fellow sinners just because he sins differently than (apparently) 90% of them.
     
  20. Mason653

    Mason653 Registered User

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    I like all of the honest answers. Good clean discussion. I appreciate the participation.


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