Mormonism and Freemasonry

[jwhoff]

This is complete speculation, as I do not know the workings of the GL of NC but do know many NC Masons, but while I doubt it's written in stone, I suspect that many individual Lodges would reject a Mormon because of the whole polygamy thing. Yes, the practice is officially outlawed by the Mormon church, but it does pop up from time to time with a few extreme groups. I may be completely off base, but my guess is that's it.

Many Southern jurisdictions have some hard line Bible Belters as members. We have one member who has lived with a woman for years and years. They are a happy couple and "man and wife" in ever since of the word except having a piece of paper issued by the government that says they should pay joint taxes. In casual conversation, it was brought up one night that if certain people had known he wasn't legally married at the time of his ballot, he would have never gotten in. I was on an investigating committee not long ago where one of the other members asked the petitioner if he'd ever been drunk. Sex and drinking are big no-no's!

When I call their attention to the wages of a FC Mason, some old timers will say, "They just call it that. It wasn't alcoholic back then." Uhhhhh, right. :54:

Fascinating! That is one excellent display of athletic prowess.

After the second jump into a glass of wine as big as you are ... WOW!

... and the guy never misses.

Talk about EXTREME GAMES!

Oh, yes. Excellent topic as well.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

Yes, we actually do call ourselves Freemasons and members of our Grand Lodge have been doing so 25 years longer than yours, a little more than 200 years to be exact. My personal lodge members have been calling themselves Masons for 213 years.

So... you're not going to answer the question about the odds of a non-xtian being accepted into your Lodge?

And FWIW, asking specifics about a man's religion on the petition is inappropriate. We are not supposed to care about the nature of the man's belief, only that he has it. Right?

 

[Companion Joe]

So... you're not going to answer the question about the odds of a non-xtian being accepted into your Lodge?

And FWIW, asking specifics about a man's religion on the petition is inappropriate. We are not supposed to care about the nature of the man's belief, only that he has it. Right?

I can not answer the question on a statewide basis. I can not speak for 45,000 people. Also, I didn't write the state-approved petitions. I was just adding additional information on the topic at hand. As for Jews or Muslims in my specific town wanting a petition, I have never seen nor heard tell of one. I am sure there are some in the larger cities. Whether or not they have sought admittance, I do not know. That is neither good, bad, nor indifferent commentary. It's just a statement of fact. Personally, if I met someone who I thought would make a good Mason, and he asked for a petition, how he worshiped wouldn't be major concern of mine.

I will point out that in my jurisdiction, the first of the three Great Lights of Masonry is specific.

 

[MarkR]

I will point out that in my jurisdiction, the first of the three Great Lights of Masonry is specific.

As it is in ours; the Holy Bible must be on the altar when Lodge is open. However, we can also have other VSLs in addition, and an initiate can specify a VSL other than the Holy Bible to take his obligations if he wishes.

 

[CuAllaidh]

Wow. And they call themselves Freemasons? Let me guess, a Jew or Muslim wouldn't even get a copy of the petition?

The petition in my jurisdiction asks these questions as well, although I can tell you from personal experience they are fine with non-christians.

 

[dfreybur]

And FWIW, asking specifics about a man's religion on the petition is inappropriate. We are not supposed to care about the nature of the man's belief, only that he has it. Right?

I noticed that. Technically, reading the answers on the petition would be introducing sectarian religion into lodge discussion and thus a landmark violation. It's on the petition form and thus technically allowed. If I were a member of that jurisdiction I would consider getting signatures for legislation to get that part of the petition changed. I don't think I would consider it a high enough priority to actually get around to presenting at GL over it, though. Bigger fish to fry than words on a form until I know someone declined to petition when he read the form.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

The petition in my jurisdiction asks these questions as well, although I can tell you from personal experience they are fine with non-christians.

And for the candidate whose truthful answer is something akin to... "I don't worship in a church", how fine would they be?

It is 2014 and we should all be well aware that there are valid spiritual paths that don't look much like your run-of-the-mill, Sunday go to meeting denominations. So why ask such questions, other than to identify/intimidate someone who is too different for us to be comfortable with?

 

[CuAllaidh]

And for the candidate whose truthful answer is something akin to... "I don't worship in a church", how fine would they be?

It is 2014 and we should all be well aware that there are valid spiritual paths that don't look much like your run-of-the-mill, Sunday go to meeting denominations. So why ask such questions, other than to identify/intimidate someone who is too different for us to be comfortable with?

Well being as that is exactly the case for me I can tell you it phases them but not significantly. As for the why ask, not sure, I am guessing its been on the form for some time and no one's questioned it.

 

[Glen Cook]

Uhm..., I don't believe that there is a Grand Lodge in the world that does not "allow Mormon's to be Masons". What an utterly absurd thing for someone claiming to be a Mason to object to.

Correct, but until 1984, for a period of some 60 years, the Grand Lodge of Utah did not. This was accepted by the other GL's.

 

[Morris]

Correct, but until 1984, for a period of some 60 years, the Grand Lodge of Utah did not. This was accepted by the other GL's.

Wow!

Was it hard to change that?

 

[Glen Cook]

The jurisprudence report is an interesting read. It recognizes the position is contrary to the tenets of Freemasonry, but also queries whether we Latter-day Saints can be good Masons.
It did pass. It was some 24 years before the first acknowledged Latter-day Saint would serve as Grand Master (2008).

 

[Rick Carver]

Hopefully, the Mormons understanding of their rituals and meaning are better explained to them than many of ours are. Much of the Mormon Church clearly is borrowed from Masonry.

 

[Glen Cook]

...Much of the Mormon Church clearly is borrowed from Masonry.

Ummm, no. There are clearly outward similarities between the LDS Temple ceremonies and the US Masonic ritual. That ceremony is only a small portion of LDS theology (including that whole Book of Mormon thang). Even in that ceremony, the meaning is different, as it is a Creation drama, and the Masonic ceremony is a Hiramic legend.

 

[BryanMaloney]

Ummm, no. There are clearly outward similarities between the LDS Temple ceremonies and the US Masonic ritual. That ceremony is only a small portion of LDS theology (including that whole Book of Mormon thang). Even in that ceremony, the meaning is different, as it is a Creation drama, and the Masonic ceremony is a Hiramic legend.

Ever notice how those who claim that Mormon ceremonies are cribbed from Masonic ritual likely lacks direct experience with one, the other, or both?

 

[Warrior1256]

Ever notice how those who claim that Mormon ceremonies are cribbed from Masonic ritual likely lacks direct experience with one, the other, or both?

Yeah, being a new MM I had heard and read that the Mormons had borrowed liberally from Masonry for their rituals but I had never had discussions with those more about this than me.

 

[MarkR]

I once chatted with a Mormon at work about this subject. We both tiptoed around a lot of subjects so as not to reveal anything that we weren't supposed to, but at least in his day (he was an older gentleman, no longer in the LDS Church) it seems there was a lot of "similarities." After all, both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were Masons.

 

[Glen Cook]

Joseph's participation in the fraternity was rather limited, as shown in History of the Church and his journals. A timeline helps demonstrate this: while the Kirtland Temple was dedicated on March 27, 1836, he was not made a Master Mason until March 16, 1842. He was martyred in 1844.

Further, as the LDS Temple ceremony has evolved,there are even fewer similarities.

 

[cemab4y]

You can view the endowment ceremony on YouTube. You will notice the similarities, especially the prayer circle.