One-Day classes, What do YOU think?

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by cemab4y, Feb 19, 2011.

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Are you in favor of One-Day Classes?

  1. Yes!

    8.4%
  2. No

    91.6%
  1. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I like what @Glen Cook said - I am also still just working on the foundation and I am not even sure it has more than a couple of stones hanging around it... I have a long long way to go (I hope LOL!).
     
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  2. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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  3. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    So basically this is saying its not a "problem" in masonry but its also not a solution since the data was identical. This then must ponder the question, since one day conferrals do not improve Freemasonry's stats, why dont we just take it slow again and let the candidates individually experience the degrees? Temperance, no?

    I know some GLs allow multiple candidates/brothers to go thru at a time but I also dont like that. It seems more of a convenience thing than anything for lodge members. Give each man his own night. A. This keeps the degree team members up to par and well practiced. No more Sunday night rehearsal if you are doing them regularly. B. It allows us sideliners to see the degrees regularly and chance to ponder them more and more. C. It felt very special knowing all these strangers came together on three different occassions just for me. I felt welcomed in that regard.
     
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  4. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    If the candidate is not actually having an initiatic experience as their first steps in Freemasonry then all they are doing is checking the boxes needed so they can attend the business meeting and vote on the bills. We are either making Masons or we are making Members. I woul never say that some men who come in through the one day classes do not go on to become excellent and learned Brothers. I'm one. I've told my story before, when I came in over twenty years ago, it was in a Man 2 Mason one day class. I thought that's how everyone did it. Back then, I knew little of Freemasonry and how it was supposed to be. Once I experienced the ritual the way it was meant to be my eyes were opened wide. And I vowed I would never support the sham way I was raised. I was cheated of a true initiation and was only able to find some peace by learning as many parts as I could and giving the meaningful experience I was robbed of to others. So when I voice my disgust concerning one day classes it is from experience. I dont care what the numbers say, those practices are horrible for our Craft.

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  5. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >I was cheated of a true initiation

    I was at an initiation a couple of years ago and asked the candidate afterwards if he felt differently. He said he felt bigger. I was not surprised as I had observed that there was Light flowing down into him as he took his obligation so that his aura was indeed bigger.

    Unfortunately the flow of Light is not usually very strong in Masoni ritual. In that case it was the caliber of the candidate that caused the flow - not the caliber of the ritual team.

    So that is my usual observation - the candidate triggers the inner event. This is not the direct fault of the ritual teams. The tide has gone out on the current form of Freemasonry and only exceptional candidates get what they come for.
     
  6. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    So, your take on my story is that it was my fault that I felt cheated because of a poor initiation practice where I was rushed through all three degrees in one day with 80+ other men? Pretty bold statement. I guess my "aura" isn't strong enough.
     
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  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Thanks for sharing this Brother.. a very interesting comment..
     
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  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >it was my fault that I felt cheated

    In the esoteric tradition, the initiate is always self-made. The aspiring human does the work of establishing right relationship with humanity, Nature and him/herself. At the same time the aspirant is increasing alignment with the Light. When those works have proceded sufficiently the Light follows the new line of least resistance and flows through the human who then stabilizes the flow and starts on the next stage of right relationship.

    It is very rare for such a stabilization to occur during a Masonic initiation but I have seen it twice.
     
  9. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    There's really no point in arguing with you since your view of Freemasonry is so radically different than anything most Freemasons would recognize that there is no common framework to debate from. Your literally post in almost every response you make, regardless of the topic being discussed, ends up being about light flowing here and there and vibrations and every other buz word from the Kybalion. And your response here is just as appropriate as usual for you.

    Rather than actually discuss the efficacy of rushing a petitioner through all of the rituals in the minimum amount of time possible, without any opportunity for contemplation or to absorb the teachings (the actual foundation of western esoteric principals) and the negative effect this might have on the Lodge and the person, your contribution is to state that it is the candidate that is to blame for not being properly attenuated in that circumstance. I'm sorry James, you've made some nonsensical posts but I think this one takes the cake.

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  10. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Do you not recognize that establishing right relationships with humans is the work of the EA and right relationship with Nature is the work of the FC?

    In the 3rd degree the candidate is raised from darkness into the Light.

    The rituals thereby reflect the inner processes that the brother may or may not pursue.
     
  11. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    You know-
    The more I think about it I don’t think the issue is really the fact that it’s a one day class but rather the often sub par delivery and large number of candidates.
    If it was a single brother doing all three degrees I don’t know that he’s be worse off in any real sense as the knowledge isn’t really gained at first viewing.
     
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  12. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    Do you recognize that Freemasonry is a system of morality taught by allegory? Freemasonry has elements of alchemy in it, but it is not an alchemical school. It has elements of kabbalism in it, but we are not, strictly speaking, kabbalists. It has elements of hermetic philosophy in it, but we are not hermeticists. And a dozen other philosophies and schools of thought.

    What you have just posted here is absolutely correct, while at the same time completely sidesteps the entire post you are replying to.

    The Light all of us are working towards is knowledge, understanding, wisdom, enlightenment. While an actual physical or metaphysical manifestation of the Light would be pretty wizard, it is not what our Craft degrees are actually helping us to achieve.

    I'm not saying there is no place for the metaphysical in Freemasonry, I'm a student of practical alchemy, but I am not going to tell my Brothers they are wrong because they dont see true alchemical teachings in every part of Freemasonry.

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  13. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >Do you recognize that Freemasonry is a system of morality taught by allegory?

    This is an interesting question.

    Albert Mackey writes in The Symbolism of Freemasonry, Chapter 1: The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols," has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome.

    Note that he says that it is a Science of Morality rather than a System. The difference of course is that a science is based upon experiment and observation.

    A more commonly recognised science of morality is Neurolinguistic Programming - a science popular amongst sales staff as a means of manipulating the actions of customers.

    Of course a science of morality can be quite destructive in the wrong hands - hence the need to conceal it behind allegory.

    If it were only a system of morality it would surely be easier to teach by plain speaking. It is certainly peculiar to veil a system of morality from those that ought to practice it.

    I suspect that with the loss of knowledge of Masonic Science it was easier to disguise the loss by referring to a system of morality.
     
  14. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    Sure, focus on the use of one word instead of the actual argument. Science and System are used throughout Freemasonry. Focusing on this was an easy out.

    Your constant assertion that nobody does Masonic science right except you is tired. I'm not even going to entertain the rest of the wrongheaded thought in your post. The discussion needs to move back to the actual topic of one day classes.

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  15. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    It’s worth noting that Mackey, pike, wilmshurst or any number of Masonic writers are only writing from their understanding and arnt an authority on the craft as a whole, no one can profess to speak for freemasonry in its entirety, moreover I’m not convinced the word “science” carries the meaning you attach to it in a Masonic context.
    However there are many viewpoints and to tell people they are wrong based on your limited experience is quite short sighted.
     
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  16. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Valid points, David. Mackey, Pike, and Wilmshurst rarely agree with each other! (FWIW I’ll take Wilmshurst over the others any day.)
     
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  17. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I’m inclined to agree with you on Wilmshurst ;)
     

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