Why is the north a place of darkness?

[coachn]

Greek?! Good sir, I believe you meant The Mithraic Philosophy!

LOL! Nope. But I can see how that could occur.

 

[coachn]

I like this Bro, but I think Freemasonry references more ideas than just Classical Greek Philosophy but also the Enlightenment (lack of Dogma and reference to science) and Reformation (personal relationship with the divine rather than blind obedience to a dogma). Many would want to throw earlier religions in ("Mithraic Philosophy" mentioned above) and cosmologies (Kabbalah) and spiritual traditions (Kabbalah again, but also Catharism).

It is an amalgam

It does now. However, innovations will do that

 

[Elexir]

FM Ritual: Classic Greek Philosophy masked in Biblical Characterizations to Purposefully Throw Off the Scent Trail for Zealots.

Depends on the ritual

 

[coachn]

Depends on the ritual

Yep. Certainly does. And the more the ritual radiates from the 1717 start, the more you'll see innovations.

 

[Elexir]

Having read a modest amount of mythology, I have only found our third degree penalty in ancient Egypt.

If you are refering to the organs it was far from any sort of punishment.

 

[Bloke]

It does now. However, innovations will do that

Innovations ? ! Blasphemy !

 

[coachn]

Innovations ? ! Blasphemy !

LOL!

 

[Elexir]

We have established that the North is not literally a place of darkness for most of the year, and the South Pole has the same characteristics.

So what is the Masonic intent when stating that the North is the place of darkness?

What is the reasons that other traditions uses the north as something of lesser worth?

Masonic tradition is not a separate tradition but has a basis in tradition wich has been slightly modified to prove certain points.

 

[Elexir]

>Masonic tradition is not a separate tradition

Then we can ask why the lodge does not have an officer in the North when some other ritual forms certainly do so.

I used to belong to a ritual organization that put an empty chair in the north. I was told by an elderly member that when he was first initiated, he sat in the NE and placed his elbow on the arm rest of that empty chair. Immediately his elbow was knocked off the chair - apparently by an invisible presence. Being a little surprised he put his elbow back on the arm rest and again it was immediately knocked off by an unseen force.

I have taught brethren how to dowse the energy of the pedestals of the Master and Wardens then taken them to the north to try again. Each time they found the same energy somewhat displaced from opposite the SW pedestal. This experiment was done over several nights with different brethren when the temple was empty and each time the same invisible spot was found.

What is the nature of the unmarked station in the north of a Masonic lodge?

First, it should be noted that ritual is never universal and diffrent rituals have diffrent officers in diffrent places.

If we look at the dionysian mysteries the entrence at the north was reserved for the lesser worth.

In the middle ages the accused in a trail was placed in the north facing south.

Looking at norse mythology the realms of the dead that are considerd "bad" are placed in the north.

So we can see a common theme with north being of less worth in many diffrent cultures and since freemasonry is not culturally indipendent indipendant (look at the graham manuscript) it incoporate it into the ritual.

 

[coachn]

First, it should be noted that ritual is never universal and diffrent rituals have diffrent officers in diffrent places.

If we look at the dionysian mysteries the entrence at the north was reserved for the lesser worth.

In the middle ages the accused in a trail was placed in the north facing south.

Looking at norse mythology the realms of the dead that are considerd "bad" are placed in the north.

So we can see a common theme with north being of less worth in many diffrent cultures and since freemasonry is not culturally indipendent indipendant (look at the graham manuscript) it incoporate it into the ritual.

Native America lore uses the North symbolically to represent:

1) the unknown; mysteries
2) a place of transformation-discovery-recovery-uncover-danger-wonder
3) where heroes MUST go to face what must be faced to transform the world for the better, save themselves-others or undergo an arduous superhuman task.​

In other words, that's the place you don't want to avoid, unless you're a wussymon.

 

[Brother JC]

I’m not sure about anyone else’s ritual but in the one I was Initiated with it specifically states that it is WITHIN the temple that the sun did not reach the north, not in the geographical location.

@coachn Good addition, I was remembering similar traditions.

 

[Elexir]

Native America lore uses the North symbolically to represent:

1) the unknown; mysteries
2) a place of transformation-discovery-recovery-uncover-danger-wonder
3) where heroes MUST go to face what must be faced to transform the world for the better, save themselves-others or undergo an arduous superhuman task.​

In other words, that's the place you don't want to avoid, unless you're a wussymon.

Intressting. I have basicly no knowledge about native american tradition for obvious reasons

 

[Warrior1256]

In other words, that's the place you don't want to avoid, unless you're a wussymon.

***snicker, snicker***

 

[coachn]

I’m not sure about anyone else’s ritual but in the one I was Initiated with it specifically states that it is WITHIN the temple that the sun did not reach the north, not in the geographical location.

And, if you follow the direction provided to us by Ritual, you take this hint and run with it for further education into how shadows across the face of the earth differ by location, time and orientation.

@coachn Good addition, I was remembering similar traditions.

Thanks! Good to know I am not the only one.

 

[coachn]

Intressting. I have basicly no knowledge about native american tradition for obvious reasons

I didn't either, at first. However, as a young boy, I read up a lot about them, visited the museums in may area (LI NY) and as an adult, I was introduced to JC* and my whole life view grew wider and deeper.

* Joseph Campbell

 

[Elexir]

I didn't either, at first. However, as a young boy, I read up a lot about them, visited the museums in may area (LI NY) and as an adult, I was introduced to JC* and my whole life view grew wider and deeper.

* Joseph Campbell

No native american musems over here though. But a lot of norse and bronze age things.

 

[coachn]

No native american musems over here though. But a lot of norse and bronze age things.

Way Cool!!!!

 

[Schuetz]

I am intrigued by the legend of Cavelum. It is more interesting than the literal answer. I've always noted that in the Third Degree, it is the Sea Captain that sits in the north. However, I've found very little on his importance in my studies. In a diagram of a Lodge (I have the name Harold W. Percival next to it in my notes) there is a Zodiac circle drawn over it with Capricorn in the East, Libra in the South, Cancer in the West, and Aquarius in the North. I'm not sure the symbolism, but it is Astronomy not Astrology that constitutes one of the Seven Arts & Sciences.

Quentin E. L. Schuetz, M.M.
Shekinah Lodge No. 241 • IL

 

[John Byron Carlisle IV]

As Marshall of Nevada #13, and in watch of my brother's etiquette. I commend all of you . Your conversation and or debate is of the highest regard for each other. You all are showing your obligations honorable.

 

[Elexir]

According to the Hermetic tradition, the four cardinal points represent the four traditional elements of Air (heat and moisture) in the East; Water (cold and moisture) in the West; Fire (heat and dryness) in the South and Earth (cold and dryness) in the North. When conducting ceremonial magic, Kabbalists further place the Archangel of Air, Raphael dressed in yellow, to the East; the Archangel of Water, Gabriel dressed in blue, to the West; the Archangel of Fire, Michael dressed in red, to the South; and the Archangel of Earth, Uriel dressed in black, to the North. This I believe could be one of the reasons why the north is considered as a place of darkness since the color attributed to it in the Hermetic tradition is black.

The North as a place of darkness is found in many mythologies so its most likley not that easy.